Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you take your art and you share it, you see its power. This is the Bold Artist's Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
You have answers, and you're expressing them in your art. Your art is important, and it needs to be seen.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome. And let's get started with today's episode.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's happened. We have finally launched Season One, Episode One of the Bold Artist's Podcast. This season is going to wrap up at the end of 2021. But until then, we're talking to artists all over the globe about bold color and bold moves. This means we get to dive into conversations about how and what makes an artist paint with bold color and use strong unashamed brushstrokes. We get to hear stories of taking risks and the big steps it takes for artists to get out of the box and live as wholehearted artists. I want to mention that the Bold Artist Podcast is is created by Bold School. Boldschool.com - it's a space where you can learn bold color painting. There is no place like it online for learning painting. You definitely want to check it out. This podcast is aired in video on the Bold School, YouTube, and in audio on all available podcast apps.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And we would love it if you could hit follow, hit subscribe, leave a review, and more than anything, we'd love it if you share this with a friend so we can get off to a successful launch. Hopefully, you've had the chance to listen to our pilot episode, which was aired just before this one where my cohost, Charla Maarschalk, and I share how the podcast got started. We laugh, reminisce, and dive a little deeper into what matters to us, how we want to see wholehearted artists, how we believe in artists, and you're even going to get to hear a little of my own personal journey of how I became a podcast host. There's so much more than our pilot episode could even express. And that's why it was only fitting that Charla is also our very first guest here on episode one. In this episode, you're going to find out how Charla became the masterful bold color painter that she is.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You'll hear how and why she founded Bold School, and a little bit more about the heart of her message -- how every artist was made to create, how powerful your art is, and why you need to share it. So, let's go over to my interview with Charla, Maarschalk, and on a side note, I just want to say that during the recording of this interview, Charla was recovering from a case of Covid. So, you might sense that her energy is low, but she is still pouring out for the benefit of artists, which we are so thankful for. Let's go over to Charla.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So, Charla, it's such an honor to be interviewing you today on your very own podcast, because even though I'm the host of the Aold Artist's Podcast, you're the founder of Bold School, and this podcast is a branch of your school. So, Welcome to your own show.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I'm very honored to be here, Marijanel.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Honored to have you. Um, just for starters to kick off our interview here with you today, Charla, can we rewind a little and start with a bit of your history. Before you were even a painter, before you found a bold school, who was and is Charla Maarschalk?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I've always been an artist. So, um, I'd probably started painting in more seriously in high school. I think in junior high, my dad bought me my very first Bob Ross set.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh, I love Bob Ross.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I was one of those. That was my first paint set. Um, but before, really before that, I was still always an artist. When it, when it comes to that part of me, I've always been an artist. There was no before, and I went to school and halfway through my first university year, I switched into fine art. And since then, actually last night, my son, Jesse, asked me what I was before I was a painter. It's interesting. He asked me that very question last night. And I said, there was no before, because in university I started studying Fine Art. And he said, what did you do when you were done university? And my first job was a web design and graphic design. So, it was always visual arts for me. So, as an artist, there was no before.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Wow. Well, good answer. Um, I always think of, you know, sometimes I think that there's divisions between when you were a web designer, when you were a photographer, when you were a painter, but really there's, there's no separation, it's all being an artist. So, before you made the commitment to be a painter in the fine arts, you were doing graphic design and photography, and what was it like to make that transition?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Okay, that's a good question because there was definitely a transition between applied art and fine art. And I never even really understood what the difference was. I remember when I was at school and I went to Sheridan College, I was doing, um, it was called interactive multimedia, which was, which became a web designer out of that. And I was walking through the photography section of the school area, and I had done photography at university of my fine art degree was in photography. So, when I walked through the photography area at Sheridan, I was seeing all of these, um, like fashion photography and studio set ups, and, and it was called applied photography. I think that was the first time it ever really occurred to me what the difference between fine art and applied arts work and applied arts are just, basically when you leave school, you can get a paying job.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And I realized that's what I wanted to do. I wanted a paid job as an artist. So, I went in that direction of working in the applied arts. So making the decision to no longer be a paying paid photographer and becoming a fine artist, painting bold, colorful portraits, it was just a massive leap of faith. I don't think I really intentionally or consciously understood. I just understood what it was. I just knew that it was a massive risk and I didn't have any idea how I was going to earn a living or make money off of painting. And I think that was probably the biggest difference when I was done university, I had three job offers. When I became a photographer, had jobs immediately. But when I started painting, um, there was nothing. There was people saying, wow, you're talented. And then that was it. Nobody bought the paintings. Well, actually people did start buying paintings pretty quick, but it wasn't like I got a job, and I was guaranteed a paycheck. So, I think the trend that transition was really about being willing to take the risk, putting all my faith behind it, believing this is what I was created fo,r believing that it had purpose and power, but not really having any idea, any of that meant.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So, once you made the decision to become a painter, did you dive immediately into portraits, or did you play with subject matter until you fell in love with portraits? How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Um, I dove immediately into portraits. I didn't know what I was going to do. Uh, I pretty much bought all the supplies, set up a studio, went into my studio and started a blank canvas and said, what am I going to paint? And it, it seemed kind of logical to paint portraits because as a photographer, that's what I photographed. I photographed people. And as a photographer, I went through the stages, which took several years really of figuring out the subject matter that inspired me -- which ended up being people. I tried landscaping and landscape photography tried, um, still life. I tried everything, and I always wanted to put a person in there. Even if I found this beautiful landscape -- and I love landscape photography; I love looking at landscapes -- but I always wanted to photograph it with a person. And if I was doing some still life in the studio, I wanted people involved.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I had such a heart, I did food photography for a restaurant. And like, I just want some people in here. It makes it interesting to give it life. So, I had decided as a photographer that I liked photographing people. So, when I started painting, it kind of just was a natural thing, 'cause that was the subject matter I enjoyed. And I had lots of photographs of people that I could paint from. So, lots of references to use. And, um, that's basically the logical decision that I made, but I've never, I've never looked back. I've attempted to paint landscapes and sometimes I'm inspired to do some other things, but I always go back to portraits, and I just never get tired of the faces. There's still like millions. I could paint. So, that's how I chose subject matter.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's amazing. And in the art community, I hear it said that portraiture is like one of the hardest subjects to paint. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I think what you're drawn to what inspires you, what, what burns down deep inside of you, and makes you want to paint, is the thing that's going to be easy for you. So, I want to paint faces, so I don't find them difficult, but I mean, they are difficult. I have had many difficulties painting faces. Um, but I believe that it's easy to learn. What am I, uh, I guess famous lines in our school is it's a science, not an art to learn how to draw a face and paint a face. And it's, there's simple measurements, and just understanding the anatomy and structure of the base makes it just like every subject matter. If you're going to draw trees, you need to understand the anatomy of a tree. Trees are actually really hard. If you want to draw a real tree that looks like something that actually exists. It's difficult if you understand the anatomy of the tree. So, it's really just about studying the technique to draw a face. I think that it's actually quite easy, and my school and lots of people have succeeded at drawing faces. So, I don't think it's the hardest subject matter. I don't even think there is a hard subject matter, actually.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Like meaning it can all be broken down into that science and all learned in increments.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yes. Yeah. It can all learnable, and it's all teachable. It's really what inspires you to do it? I think,
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I think that's one of my personal things that I appreciate about Bold School is how well you break it down into digestible pieces and components so that someone can actually learn what looks like a daunting task in painting. You break it down into something that we can learn how to do. And I want to hear more about how Bold School came into existence, because you've got charla.ca who is Charla, the fine art painter of bold, bright portraiture, but then you have this other amazing venture that you founded called Bold School. So, how did that happen, Charla?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
The beginnings of Bold School were teaching live, face-to-face workshops, which I taught workshops as a photographer. And it kind of just was something I naturally started doing as an artist because people were requesting it. My very first show, um, because I paint bold abstract color portraits, it was unique. And a lot of the local shows that I did, I was the only artist doing anything similar to this. So, I got a lot of requests for me to do demos and workshops. And when I started doing workshops, people love them. And, um, were, were having a lot of success and couldn't believe that they could paint a portrait, and then they couldn't believe that they could paint in anything but skin tones portrait. So, it was fun, and there was success. So, I was thinking, okay, I'm I must be teaching this right. There must be something about my teaching style that's working. And I got more and more requests. So I started doing, holding my own workshops like a weekend long workshop, which you attended.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
did. And it was amazing. It changed me. It changed how I see and how I paint. Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So, and it was, it was fun to do them, but they're weekend work. So, it was Saturday and Sunday. And as a wedding photographer, that's how I lived my life is my weekends were jam-packed with two to three weddings a weekend. And I didn't really like the idea of a future of teaching every weekend or a lot of weekends, even though it was fun. It was a good way to earn a living as an artist and meet lots of people and connect. And it was all good things. But basically from there, I started thinking I should just record this workshop and then more people can have access to it. And actually, people who took my workshops were asking if I had a recorded version because they wanted to be able to go back over and, you know, you can only take in so much information in one, one go.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So, to be able to watch it a second or third time, you learn more things that you didn't pick up first time around. So, people were asking for that. So, I started mulling over the idea. I was already doing online classes myself. I had been doing that for years before. It was, um, a really big thing to do online classes, and they were kind of done pretty poorly. So, I was already thinking about how I could do it better. Um, so it just kind of all started forming in my head until one day I decided to just do it. I was a photographer. So, I knew how to use equipment, which that wasn't as much of a learning curve. So, I decided to record my workshop, which was at the time called anything but skin tones. And then I called the Bold Color Bootcamp and launched it as my first online class. And it started selling right from day one and just started selling more and more every day. So, it was really exciting, scary, and fun. And from there, Bold School grew. Just, um, the more students we had, we needed mentors and created some more classes. And now we're bringing on new instructors. So, that's really how Bold School got started.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So, right now, uh, at the time of this interview, can you give us a little snapshot of what the inside of Bold School community looks like? The classes that are in there and what's happening now? Now, I know that this podcast will be out there a lot longer and things are bound to change and evolve. But today, what does it look like
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Inside of Bold School we have, um, an most of the classes are taught by me, and we have one other instructor, Corey Moortgat, who is a mentor inside our community. And she's working on her second class right now, as we're recording, we have an introductory class, which is an intro to acrylics. Everything we do is taught currently in acrylics. And so we have an intro class in acrylics just to get you used to using them and understanding the tools and everything like that. And a little bit of color theory, and a little tiny bit of bold color theory in our introductory class. We then have Bold Color Bootcamp, which was the original course that I did, which is an in depth dive into how to paint in bold, abstract colors. And it's really the core of what our school is built on. Even though it's evolving and changing is all about painting boldly, expressively that's with brush strokes and with color.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Um, and then we have a whole bunch of classes that are kind of like a paint along class, where you sit with the instructor and you go through the pallet mixing and the entire painting from front to back as the instructor explains their process. So, we have some animals, and some portraits, and we have new classes coming. So, that's kind of, what's available class-wise. And then we also have a community of artists where we hang out, and share work, and we offer feedback to each other, which is just an incredible environment. A big part of the Bootcamp is talking about how do you offer critique, how to help each other become better. Because one of the worst things I've, um, experienced as an artist and as a photographer is how your friends and family, they all say how wonderful you are. You always wonder like how these musicians end up on, um, American Idol, right? On the auditions, and they're like, I'm here to win.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And they can't even sing a tune. And it's because all of their nice and happy loving family and friends tell them they can sing -- and they can't. So, and it's not even that maybe they can't sing. It's just that they think they're so wonderful. They don't know how to get better or how to train themselves. So, we created -- a big part of the community I wanted to create with the original course -- was having a place where we could honestly tell artists, okay, this is is good, but it's not great. And this is what you need to do to improve. So, we all need to keep growing and improving. I want to become better than I am. I got hopefully a lot of years left to live, and I can become better. So, I think that no matter at what level we're at, there's still so much more to learn and to grow.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So, that community, that culture inside our community, is what we've been developing. And it's become a, just an amazing place. Most people say that the community is the best part of Bold School because it's a very supportive community. We don't just tell each other that you're a great painter. We actually say, you need to go in and change this. Or, you know, here's an option to make it better. And people come back and say, their mind is blown, just a few, um, requests from, from other artists, and their painting completely changes and comes alive. And they have aha moments all the time inside our community. And we have mentors that work for Bold School trained mentors that are in there helping with our processes. So, um, yeah, that's, I think one of the greatest parts of overall.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And one thing that I have always loved and admired about you personally, and your approach within Bold, the Bold School community has been, you've been very upfront about saying that you don't have secrets. Can you elaborate on that? A little of what that means to you to say as an artist, I don't have any secrets.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Not having secrets I think just means that we're just always available to say, tell, tell everything that we do. I guess it's that competitive spirit of, um, you know, I'm, I'm out to create a career for myself, and I don't want to give away my secrets because then you'll rise up next to me and be my competitor. But I don't believe, I think even in business, it's a little bit of a silly thing to do because everybody's advancing and everybody's growing. And if you can't grow, you're going to get left behind whether you keep your secrets or not. So, where, because we are teachers and we're helping artists, all of our secrets are told all we call our secret sauce, which isn't an original phrase, by any means. But if you have secret sauce as an artist, we want to share it and help each other.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And my secret sauce is going to definitely be different than somebody else's. But if you want to know, like what, what makes my paintings unique to me? I show everything. I tell everything. I tell all my thought processes. And I think that it's valuable, especially when you can see that across several different instructors, how they get to where they want to go. You know, it just, sometimes things click in your head differently than it will click in somebody else's head. So, those secrets are more meaningful to you. So, yeah, we, we tell all. We don't keep anything -- mainly because I don't plan on staying here. I plan on learning. So, I'll always have new secrets to share.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
That's amazing. I love that attitude and approach. And especially because I think it breaks dividing walls between artists and that competitive nature that you spoke about. It's something that's really a hindrance to always be competing or feeling jealous or holding secrets. And you've just really broken those dividing walls within Bold School community. Just saying, we don't have secrets here, and we're going to help each other, rise up, be the best painters that we can be. And what would it be your greatest hope for your Bold School students?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Maybe what I, what I've seen in people, that's giving me the greatest joy. So, I hope these things for the next student is coming along is, is that breakthrough where they realize they can actually paint something that's unique to them. You know, they, they, I think many artists, just in a sense copy what other people are doing. You know, like if you think about classical style, you learn how to mix a skin tone. You learn how to draw a figure. Now you're just drawing another figure. And you're sitting in an art class, there's 20 people, and there's a nude model in the, in the middle. The only thing that's different between all the paintings is the angle that you're drawing or painting the model from. So, and that's great. You're learning skill, and you're training. And, um, you're becoming a better artist. But what I want for people is for them to be able to look at that subject matter and express it in a way that tells a story that's unique to them.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
So the, the message or the story that you have to share with the world comes out in your art. I believe that is, you have to learn the skill, but then you have to learn how to uniquely express it. And there's something about learning how to paint loosely, like move from being like into tight realism, to be able to be able to loosen up your work and be more expressive in your work. It gives you more freedom to tell a unique story, not being stuck in realistic tones. You can use realistic tones, but learning how to use unrealistic tones. You know, just, just being able to be more expressive in telling your story. It frees people, it frees people from all of these, like, boxes and boundaries that we put ourselves in. And we're no longer just copying something that we see or studying or learning a subject matter. We're expressing something that's deep inside of us. And that's where we feel fulfilled as I think artists, because an artist is, my opinion, is here to share something with the world that will change the world and give the world hope. So, my hope for students is that they will learn how to do that. And they have. They've come into the class, and they've recognized that they can make unique work, and they feel freedom from that. And that's the best moment for me.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Did that take you a long time, personally, to discover because you, you do have such a strong, recognizable style as a portrait artist, and then you've been so generous to start Bold School and begin to teach your own style with no secrets. But, if we were to rewind, when you first bought those first paints and made a dedication to painting, did you go through like a struggle with the canvas and the paint to find that style? Or was it just naturally in you because of your photography background? What, what did that part of your journey look like?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It was a struggle for me in the beginning. I had no idea what I was doing. Like if I would have liked to have recorded those first days. They're etched in my mind, like a movie with the struggles that I had no idea what, how to get out, what I wanted to get out. But, I did always know I wanted to paint in the style I'm currently painting in. When I, I painted, um, I won't say in university because in university I had no idea what was happening in the world basically. But, uh, when I took up painting after photography, uh, I think the first time I painted after I got married was when I was pregnant with my second son, and I started painting. And I remember then that I wanted to paint in this style. I had no idea what the style was.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I had no idea how to do it. Internet wasn't really as big of a thing as it is now. So I wasn't really Googling ideas and getting inspiration. I just tried to paint that way. So when I began actually painting as a career, I knew where I wanted to go. I had to figure out how to get there. And at that point, um, I use the Internet a lot, looking for inspiration, trying to find artists that were successful at, at the vision that I had. So, then I went through the process of trying to figure out how to paint like that, how to express myself freely. And that took a couple of years, really, I think, to get there. Which was another reason why I love teaching, because I see no reason why anyone else should have to attempt to figure that out on their own. You know, like it probably took me two or three years to get anywhere close to what was making me feel fulfilled. So, it was just, you know, painting after painting of experimenting and trying to figure out what I liked or didn't like about it. And that style developed. But it was very clear in my mind, what I wanted to paint, and what I wanted to get out. It just took me a while to figure it out, I guess, cause I didn't have a teacher.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
So inside the Bold School community, what would be the top three skills for painting that you would really want to drive home to your students? So, what are you always saying and offering to your students as a basic to come back to?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
What comes to my mind right away, the one thing that I feel like I'm attempting to always bring home, is to study your subject matter. I think that people, they think that being an artist is an innate talent. You're born with it, and whatever is in your head, you can just magically make happen and manifest it into the physical world. And that is not true. You have to learn, you have to learn the skill. I'm always likening it to learning how to walk. You know, you a child learning how to walk struggles, and they have to put every bit of focus into learning how to walk. And by the time they're five years old, they don't even have to think about it. You have to get the skills from your conscious thought into your subconscious thoughts, so that they can easily flow when you're actually painting.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And I don't think people recognize that. I don't. I think they think it should just be automatic because you're an artist, and it's a born talent or it's not, but it's actually just learned skill. So, studying your subject matter and studying your medium so that you understand how paint works and everything you can do with paint, you study your subject matter with a pencil before you even start painting, so that you can understand -- for me it's faces -- so that I can understand the anatomy of a face. I study the muscle, the bone structure, the way the skin works, my expressions work. Actually take the time and study it so that it's in your subconscious, that understanding and that knowledge is in your subconscious. So, then when you want to paint an expressive face that's telling a story, you don't have to consider where do the eyes go?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
They don't go up here on the forehead. You know, they go halfways. It's -- you, you just know these things. And you know that usually there's, you have one eye that would fit right between your other two eyes. So, you can always place your eyes in the proper placement. That comes with studying and understanding. It's not about the art of it. It's about the science of it. And I think that's what I, I attempt to push to people. It's not really what we talk about in the communities a lot, but I think it's the one thing that people miss. They miss that they have to put the work in. And if you study those things, the painting will, the freedom will come faster, and the enjoyment, and the flow, and the creativity, and all the things that are great about art comes after you study.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Oh, I love that. And you know, just a few of the little tips, the Charla tips that I've gotten from being inside the Bold School community is even those simple things that you offer within your classes, where you tell us to squint a little, when we look at our reference image or our painting in order just to identify values and squinting was never part of my practice before learning from you. Like, I never once, like, squinted and looked at a reference photo. But you talk about that, and you come back to it. I don't even know if you realize you come back to it. But you'll say, okay, now it's time to squint again, because you're teaching the value of values. How important values are and values learning about values from you, I think is the number one thing that really changed me as an, as a painter, as an artist to see in the value before I saw it in the color.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah. It's a big one. I think that, um, light, right? Which is what creates values is the number one key to every kind of visual art that there is. It's number one in photography, and painting, and sculpture. I think everything is all about light. If there's no light, and you only have dark. So, the presence of light creates all of the variations right, of the values. So, thinking in terms of where the light is, where the light's coming from. And in order to see that -- because we're so used to just looking at things and our brain takes that in without us having to consciously process it -- in order for you to intentionally look and process it, squinting is the key. 'Cause, as soon as you squint everything blurs, and then you see the brightest lights and the darkest darks, and you can, you can begin to see where the light is coming from the directions and understand that light.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So, yeah, I think the thing that we're probably reiterating in the community all the time is values. Where's the light and where's the dark? Usually you look at your piece before you have to look at any of the other things that balance a painting. You have to look at if you capture the values right. And it's usually the number one thing that is wrong is values. And it's easy to see the brightest light and the darkest dark, but it's really difficult to see the million different gradations in the middle. So, most likely if your painting has gone wrong, it's because your values are wrong. And that's definitely the place to start when you're troubleshooting a bad painting.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
That's such valuable, valuable advice. I can play on words a little bit. Sorry, not sorry. So, Charla, is there anything else burning on your heart that you, that you feel that you want to express today? Uh, whether that be to your students within Bold School, the listeners, um, on our podcast here... Something that's just, yeah, just been on your heart and mind as an artist, as a leader in the community.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I don't know if there's anything new and profound that I'm, like, feeling desperate to, like, put out into the world. I think the, one of the main things I would say to any artists that I'm talking to is to get in your studio and paint, and then share it. Share it with an online community that you trust, share it with, uh, through your own portfolio website, Instagram, whatever, just start sharing your work. The reason that we're artists is so that we can create things for other people. It might be a bit of a controversial thing. Some people might not agree. Ther's a lot of people that think art is more about art therapy, or just about you being in your studio and being able to, um, express yourself this way and deal with your sad days or dark days in your studio. And I believe that art has a very important place there, but I do believe the bigger piece of that story, I think as artists, is that we're meant to share, and we're meant to help other people in their life, through our own art.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Lke, think about the power that lies in music. If you create a beautiful song, that is great for you, and it's fulfilling. But when the world gets to listen to it, it, it affects them. You know, it changes them.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Music takes us back. It can be nostalgic. It can help us heal. It can help us process. Art is the exact same way. And I think that many artists think that it's not important in other people's eyes. When you take your art and you share it, you see its power. Like when somebody looks at your piece, and they want to buy it because they love it. It's, it's probably, it's one of the most amazing experiences because you know, that's affecting somebody. I've had people come in front of my art and within seconds cry, and I don't even know why they're doing it. But it's affecting them. It's, it's, it's reaching inside, and it's, it's healing them in some way.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So, we need to share our art. But it's, it means you have to be vulnerable. It means you have to be open to criticism. You know, there's, it's scary, but it's, it's what needs to happen. You'll also become a better artist by sharing art because you will get criticism and especially if you're open to it, then it will make you a better artist and you'll get answers. But I think the number one thing is to just make your art and share it with a community of some kind. And I think your life will start changing. Your art will startchanging. Your purpose will start changing. I think it's one of the best things as artists we can do. I think it's the number one message, really, that I would want people to hear, is just share your art. Because stuff will start to happen.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
That's great. Thank you so much for everything you've shared about yourself, about Bold School, and the wisdom and advice that you've given to artists today, and for taking the time to be on your own show. It's so great to hear from you. And, um, yeah. So, yeah, so thank you for, for all that you've shared today.
Speaker 2 (36:17):