Charla (00:00):
Philosophically, what does it mean to be finished or to call a painting done?
Marijanel (00:05):
This is the Bold Artist podcast where we talk about being brave and finding creative freedom. You wanna get those beautiful things inside of your head out onto canvas? We're gonna talk to real-life artists and learn the skills and the courage it takes to do just that. I'm your host, Marijanel, a multi-form artist and creativity mentor, joined often by my co-host, Charla Maarschalk, painter of colorful portraits and founder of Bold School, an online space to learn bold color painting. Welcome, and let's get started with today's episode. Welcome to the Bold Artist podcast. We are here today with a topic that may just help you get your work done as an artist. Have you ever been in the studio and gotten frustrated, not knowing whether you can call a piece done or not? I have been there, and it's something that all artists have to figure out on that exact topic, how to call a piece done. Charla, I know that this is something that you talk a lot about in Bold School. You even have, um, some of your lessons called finish strong. And we wanna talk about that today. How do we even know when a piece of art is worth calling done?
Charla (01:26):
Well, I think there's a lot of philosophies around this idea, so I think we're probably gonna present one or two philosophies today. I don't think my ideas are the only ones, but I do have a couple of things that I share with my students at Bold School or the artists at Bold School. Um, but I'm gonna start with a story about this painting. That's like right behind me, this painting of like the teal hair and the flowers in her hair, this painting I did for a photo shoot that I, I was doing a couple of years ago. There's some photos of the shoot on my website, on Charla.ca, where I'm wearing this like red dress. It's like this, um, a gown, a ball gown. And I have flowers in my hair, and it was a really extravagant photo shoot. I was like floating in a pool and stuff.
Charla (02:10):
It was fun and crazy. So we were planning for this shoot and I knew it was gonna be extravagant. The photographer that was, was, uh, somebody I knew from back home in Newfoundland and she was in town. So, I needed this to be really good, and I needed a plan, and I wanted to have a really big piece of art in the backdrop of my shoot, and I needed something. I didn't wanna use anything I had already created 'cause I had a certain feel about it. So, I needed to do something quickly to get ready for the shoot. So, I painted this piece behind me, but what happened was I had a day to do it. I don't know why I left it until the last minute, but I had a day to do it. And I wasn't really concerned about it being a complete piece because I was painting it in the photo shoot.
Charla (02:49):
So, it didn't need to be finished, but I wanted to bring it to a, a point where it looked good, and it wouldn't look like a painting looks halfway done where, or in an ugly stage, or whatever. So anyways, I just worked really hard for a couple of hours in the afternoon, the day before the shoot and got this piece to a place where I thought that it would work, and I had no pressure. I was like, okay, I can finish it afterwards. I can completely change the colors afterwards. I can just bring it to a close later on. We did the shoot, and that was that. And this piece sat in my studio, and I didn't ever go back to it. I didn't ever finish it. And I didn't think a lot of it, I didn't consider it finished or not finished. It was just sitting in my studio until I started noticing over time, people who visited my studio would comment on the piece and like the piece.
Charla (03:33):
And I even had, as somebody asked to purchase it, and I was like, eh, it's not finished. I can't sell it. I can't put it in a show. And anyways, it's been sitting there. I've never worked on it again. It's now the backdrop for all of our podcasts. I've used it in advertising, it's on my website. Um, and it's just made me really think like, what does it even mean for a piece to be finished? Is this something that artists put on themselves and then end up sabotaging their process in the meantime, because they feel like it needs to be brought to it, some sort of a close? Is it just that we're hard on ourselves, and we don't have the confidence to, to end it? It's something. I mean, you can put paint on a painting forever, for like literally infinity. You could keep putting brush strokes on your vas.
Marijanel (04:19):
I think I have before.
Charla (04:20):
Yeah. So, you know, there's like just even philosophically, what does it mean to be finished or to call a painting done? So that, this painting behind me is always a reminder of that, and kind of a reminder of sometimes we get in our own heads, and we get a little bit silly around some of these things. And sometimes it's really just simple on, on how to, how to call a piece done. So, I guess we can talk about some of those simple ways that we can do that.
Marijanel (04:50):
Well, I do know that it's one of the questions that I'm asked a lot as an artist, and I have actually asked it of other professionals. Um, just that question, like how do you know when you're done? And it is a tricky one to be able to answer because really it comes down to the artist being satisfied and having that moment. I know for me, when I finish a piece, I have a moment of closure where I, it just settles over me. Ahhh, I like it! I'm, I'm good with this. It is what it is.
New Speaker (05:22):
Yeah.
Marijanel (05:22):
And I'm done. And even, and, and knowing the purpose of the piece often helps me as well to know when that finish comes to a piece.
New Speaker (05:32):
Yeah. Plan.
Marijanel (05:32):
Yeah. When I know the purpose, but sometimes when I, I don't know the purpose, and I'm experimenting, and I'm teaching myself new things, I can get into a real like cycle of overworking where I'll just muddle it up at, towards the end. Like in, in some ways I'll even reach a place where I'm somewhat satisfied, but I think, oh, just a little more, this, just a little more of that. And then suddenly it goes totally sideways, and I've got myself in a mess I'm trying to fix. And I know that's common. And so what is that? Is that our, um, perfectionism.
New Speaker (06:10):
Yeah, I think so.
Marijanel (06:10):
Or our inability to just set the paint brush down and say, call it done.
New Speaker (06:15):
Yeah. I think it's confidence.
Marijanel (06:15):
I have this, step away from the paint brush, Marijanel.
Charla (06:20):
Yeah. I think sometimes it's, it's a confidence level, 'cuz it's really, when you start questioning yourself that you keep, you start overworking it. Having confidence that you can complete a painting, that this is an issue for artists, and that we can draw it to close. It can be finished. It can be good. And, and it doesn't have to be a masterpiece. It doesn't have to be perfect. I think in part, knowing your process. A lot of, I think from being a teacher and having a lot of students come through our school, a lot of students don't know their process. They don't know what, what the beginning of a painting looks like, or the middle, or the end. And a lot of people have said to me, like when I talk about the ugly stage of a painting and it's just the word I use to describe that middle part, you know, where a non-artist will come into or non-painter will come into your studio and be like, what is that?
Charla (07:08):
You're like, well, it's half done. Of course it's, doesn't look that great. There's a process to getting it to completion. So, a lot of people don't recognize that process. It's really stressful when an hour in your painting doesn't look great, but it's not supposed to yet. You've got to build the painting. So, knowing your process, knowing the beginning, knowing the middle, and knowing the end will help you draw a painting to a close, without having to work on it for six years. Or six weeks. Or even six days. You know, like some paintings don't need that long. Um, and a lot of times we draw it out because we don't, we don't have the confidence to bring it to an end, and we don't know our process. So, part of what I talk about in the school is I I've termed like usually the last, uh, video or last lesson in a class I'll call finish strong.
Charla (07:55):
And I have some, some ideas that I share with people on how to bring a piece to a close for me. Like it's, it can be as simple as adding splatter to a piece. Once I add splatter, I don't like painting back over it, not to say that's rule or anything, but I like to add splatter at the end because I find it's a nice detail. Usually, like, if I'm painting a beard, I like to put a big splatter across the beard. So, when I'm getting close to done, and I don't feel like it's complete, and I add some, uh, you know, maybe a yellow splatter across an orange beard, it'll, it'll just look really interesting. And it'll bring in this detail and this, this finishing touch to the painting. So, if you have some tools in your toolbox of how you like to finish strong, or finish your pieces strong, like, another one is just putting that like white in the eye, like that little glimmer of, of reflection that's in the eye. I save that to the end, and it kind of signifies to me, it triggers me, to recognize that this painting is complete. And sometimes it's that final little detail that, that brings it together and makes you feel satisfied in your piece. So, knowing your process and having some tools on how to finish strong, I think can just help you clue up your studio time. So, you're not in there for infinity. And beyond.
Marijanel (09:12):
Those are such good words of advice. And something that you said just a moment ago, um, that you said that not everything has to be a masterpiece. And I think that sometimes as painters we're, we're striving to make every piece our best, which is, which is a sign of excellence. That's part of our call, is to, to do all of our work, the best that we can to put everything into it.
New Speaker (09:35):
Yeah.
Marijanel (09:35):
But there also comes a point of acceptance where not every single piece is a masterpiece. I think I've heard you call them stepping stones before.
Charla (09:45):
Yeah, I think it's like, I, I think the way to look at our journey in general, just as a whole, I guess we could say is that we're journeying from here to the end of our life. And there's a lot that happens in between. Where we're, we'll never be, um, we'll never as artists, as creatives, I don't think we'll ever be complete, we'll ever be done until our life draws to a close. So, we can't, um, go into the studio every day and expect to paint a masterpiece. I don't think any artist in history has done that no matter how good they are and how good their pieces are. They're not always masterpieces. Each piece is, is a step, is a part of the process, and the journey of becoming that artist, we're gonna be at the end of our life, or even the artists were gonna be in 10 years.
Charla (10:29):
We can look, we can decide on a goal of where we wanna go. And each piece is a part of that process. So, when you wanna learn a new skill, you've never used platter before. So, you're like, okay, great. I'm gonna do what Charla said. I'm gonna use splatter in my painting. Then this painting, the goal of this painting is to learn or to attempt or experiment with splatter. And then when you paint the next piece, and the third piece, and the fourth piece after that, you will be using splatter in new ways. So, there... It's a journey of, of experimenting and learning and growing your skills. And the pieces in the, in the middle can be wonderful. And there's sometimes you never know who's gonna love that piece and want it on their wall, but it doesn't have to be your masterpiece. You can look at it as a step towards a, a goal that you're planning, you know, to reach or your journey.
Charla (11:18):
And of course, when you look back on your work throughout the year or throughout the decade, you'll see that journey and that process. And it's quite beautiful. There are collectors out there who actually like to have... When they find, when they see an artist that has a lot of potential, they love to buy in the beginning of their careers because having those original pieces is really special when you become a master and your work becomes famous or whatever it is that you want your work to do. It's really special to have some of those original pieces, 'cuz you can see the journey that that artist took. We all love baby photos, you know. And it's, it's not what we attain to look like when we're 25 or 45, but we all love our baby photos.
Marijanel (11:58):
Yeah, those are such good pieces of advice on finishing our painting strong and knowing when to call a piece done. And as we know, so many things in life and in art come to natural close of seasons and chapters. And Charla and I want to make the announcement today on the Bold Artist podcast that this is the close of season one. This is our finale show of season one, but do not fear. We're not done podcasting. We're just changing it up for the summer season. So, at the time of this airing at the time of this recording, we're just entering the summer season, um, the start of June, 2022. And um, we are going to be shifting things up for the summer. Charla, do you wanna share with our watchers and listeners a little bit about what we have planned coming up?
Charla (12:51):
I don't know. Do we have anything planned?
Marijanel (12:52):
We do have plans.
Charla (12:54):
I'll tell you, we have a lot more plans. Yeah. And we had a lot more, we have a lot more plans for summer sessions than we had our very first beginning of the podcast and our first show that we, we did.
Marijanel (13:05):
That's right. Yeah.
New Speaker (13:05):
When, and that's kind of interesting to look at process and knowing when something is done because we really didn't know where we were headed, and we kind of had to let the season ebb and flow, and we had lots of different guests on and we came on together and had lots of different topics, and we kind of allowed it to come to this place. We didn't really know when it was going to end. We thought maybe Spring. And uh, so, so we've, you know, we've, I think we've used a lot of what I use in the studio to kind of bring this whole season to a close and transition into summer sessions, which we are excited to do.
Charla (13:41):
They're going to be kind of the ideas around the idea of having like bite size sessions that you can listen to when you're sipping, um, your coffee in the morning or out by the pool or on the beach or whatever on the go. We don't wanna have long sessions where you're gonna sit and really ruminate on things. We want it to be fun and like hot topics of the season. That kind of an idea, of course always art-based. And it's just gonna be me and Marijanel. We're gonna be here all summer talking to you guys about, um, the fun art topics.
Marijanel (14:14):
Yeah. Hot topics of the summer season related to art. And I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's gonna have a fun new flavor, something fresh for the season. And then in the fall we will have some more announcements of what's next for season two, and what's coming up.
New Speaker (14:30):
Season two.
Marijanel (14:31):
And so, uh, just in reflection of season one, though, as we draw this little chapter to a close, I just wanna express that I'm so thankful that the season went as amazing as it did. It far exceeded my expectations in so many ways. We have had such a wonderful, amazing guests who've poured out of their heart and soul and given us, like, content to learn from, and grow from, and reflect on. And, um, we've gotten to meet and talk to people all over the world. I mean, we had many from India and...
New Speaker (15:08):
it's so amazing.
Marijanel (15:09):
Um, yeah. And from Sweden and, and just all over. It's just been yeah, amazing.
Charla (15:15):
And Newfoundland,
Marijanel (15:17):
Yes. Newfoundland. We will not forget Newfoundland and, and um, I'm thinking Florida, like California, just ev... like, it's just been incredible.
New Speaker (15:26):
Yeah.
Marijanel (15:26):
And I've had, um, I've just felt incredibly blessed to get to ask questions and hear the hearts and wisdom and skills of all of these artists and what they've brought to the podcast to make it so dynamic. And then the feedback from the listeners, where the listeners will say, Marijanel, thank you for asking that question and thank you for, um, you know, just digging deeper under the surface layers and, and getting, um, to the heart of, of the art topics. And, and so that has really encouraged me. And then, you know, it was probably I'd say just at the beginning of the new year, um, or at least in January where I became very aware that we had weekly listeners. So, when we first launched in September, I knew people were listening, and we could see the downloads happening.
Marijanel (16:19):
And we, we knew there was some feedback. Um, we were receiving feedback, but I wasn't really aware that these were people waking up on Friday mornings that were looking for the podcast.
Charla (16:31):
Yeah.
Marijanel (16:31):
And, and listening and not missing a show. And to me, that blew me away. And when I became aware of that, it was just, it took my experience as a podcast host to a whole new level of thinking, wow, there's faithful, dedicated listeners. And so I wanna express a real heartfelt thanks to you all for watching and listening so faithfully and being there for us as we launched in season one.
Charla (16:59):
Yeah. It was amazing. I just love the idea that people are like coming and tuning in every single week. It, it blows my mind, too. I don't, like, why you wanna listen to us talking, I don't know. I think we have great conversations, but we didn't know if anyone else was gonna enjoy it. But I, I had a moment, one day when I was kind of watching our views on like watching the analytics on YouTube and to see like, okay, is, is this one getting viewed? Is anything happening? Is what do I need to learn from it? And I was getting used to the numbers going up every week, and I'm like, oh, like we've had it up for an hour. And we've only got 150 views, like, well, that's so much, why is, why is this show not getting viewed? And then I stopped.
Charla (17:38):
And I was like, hang on a second, 150 people have watched our show this morning. And how could I start complaining just because it's not as many as we got three weeks ago, it was... And, and I stopped. And I was like one person watching, listening to us, and being engaged and coming back next week, amazes me. 150 people in the first hour amazes me. And I know that's those aren't incredible stats. People get better stats than that. But when we started, we knew we had some conversations to share and knowing that so many of you guys are tuning in each week and taking the time to comment and share has just been incredible and it's, it's made it worth it. You know, so many times we sit in our studios, and we think about things, or we listen to other people talking about things, having conversation around these topics is so important as an artist. For us, we go back into our community and we some, sometimes in there we get conversations started around the podcast.
Charla (18:40):
So, when I say, I know some of you are out there, and you're not in our community, and you're not in those conversations, but these podcasts have started some really great conversations. And I think that's where the value is. And if you're not in our community, you know, these are great conversation pieces that you can take to your other artist friends. You can listen together and talk about these topics, and it opens your mind and it expands your journey, and it becomes, it makes your process in your studio deeper and more, um, richer, I guess, is the word I'm looking for.
Marijanel (19:09):
Yes. And I wanna add in this, that if you're not in the Bold School community, and you want to be, you can be just visit boldschool.com. And if you're just curious, get on our email list, and you will get a lots more of the down low.
Charla (19:23):
Yes.
Marijanel (19:24):
In the email list. So, make sure to get on that, that email, to know what Charla's talking about, about the Bold School community. It's an amazing place.
Charla (19:31):
Yeah.
Marijanel (19:31):
And, um, our last podcast, uh, the one that aired just before this one shares a little bit more about how community is the new social media, and it's something that's life changing and art changing inside the Bold School community. So, I just needed to throw that in the mix, and to make sure that our watchers and listeners knew exactly what we were talking about.
Marijanel (19:52):
And it is a place to stay connected about the podcast, as well. Going back Charla, to what you said about the analytics and what you were seeing on YouTube. Uh, we also have, like, that's just YouTube. We have the audio platforms which have been getting steady downloads, and we have two RS feeds for those platforms. And I was looking at one other day and there's been over 12,000 downloads. And the other is a more like 9,000. So, in total, we're looking at upwards of 20,000 downloads, which I,
Charla (20:22):
That's incredible.
Marijanel (20:23):
I don't know what to compare it to, but I feel incredibly blessed.
Charla (20:27):
I know. Yeah.
Marijanel (20:27):
Like, those are actual physical pushes of a button, or like pushes on the phone saying, I want your podcast on my device, and I'm listening.
Charla (20:35):
Yeah. It's amazing.
Marijanel (20:36):
And that's, yeah, that's just so incredible, and it couldn't be possible without the watchers and listeners tuning in.
Marijanel (20:43):
And so, um, as we wrap up on, uh, this season one, um, I just, yeah, I can't express enough our gratitude. And, um, I'm thinking here, I'd, I'd love to just share a couple things that really impressed us, Charla, from -- like left an impression -- um, from season one. I know, like, I, I don't even know if I could pick my favorite interview because I love them all.
Charla (21:11):
Yeah.
Marijanel (21:12):
I, I even say to my kids, I tell them each that they're my favorite, you know? And, and anytime I've had multiple pets, I'm like, you are my favorite. So, I feel that way about every podcast guest. I'm like, you're my favorite. But I, I know that there's just been, um, some real highlights that have stuck out to me. Like, they come back to me and refresh in my mind of, of pieces of advice that, that artists have given. Um, maybe while I share one or two, you can think about anything that has impressed you. If, if something comes to your mind, I know I'm putting you on the spot.
Charla (21:47):
You've impressed me, Marijanel.
Marijanel (21:49):
Oh, thank you.
Charla (21:50):
You have impressed me.
Marijanel (21:51):
That's like such an easy answer to say. I wish you have said some more, which is...
Charla (21:55):
You know. Let see. Most people are there, at the interviews and the conversations, and I'm like, you've been there for every single one of them. I haven't been. You're, like, messaging me in the morning at 5:00 AM and going, I'm interviewing somebody on the other side of the world this morning.
Marijanel (22:08):
Yeah. That's true.
Charla (22:09):
I'm like, you are impressive. You're impressive.
Marijanel (22:12):
Well, gonna tell you one of my interviews. I wasn't sure I would ever say this on the air, but one of my interviews, I had Covid. And I did the interview with COVID, and I think I hid it pretty well, but I, that was the one that I felt the worst through. And I'm so thankful. And, and I, maybe it can be a challenge. Everyone can like, guess which interview it wa, it was.
Charla (22:34):
Yeah, let's get some guesses. We have a prize for the winner.
Marijanel (22:37):
But there was one that I felt pretty, pretty miserable, and I really wanted to cancel, but I had never canceled on an interview. There was one interview that the power went out, and that was with Steven Walden. And Steven and I were, which, by the way, if you haven't watched that podcast go back and listen, 'cuz Steven is just a gem. Hi, Steven. And so, um, uh, just before his show, I'm gonna think about maybe a half an hour before his show. They were doing work in my neighborhood and cut the power. And um, I messaged Steven on my phone saying I have no power, and I'm so sorry. But so our, our podcast show got bumped that time. But apart from that, I hadn't canceled. Maybe there was a couple reschedules that were like mutual reschedules or something, but I was like, I am not gonna let COVID stop me. I'm showing up.
Charla (23:29):
Meanwhile, I tried to cancel every single time.
Marijanel (23:33):
Yeah. Charla tried to cancel today.
Charla (23:36):
I tried to cancel today.
Marijanel (23:37):
I'm, go put on your makeup, and show up, and I'm very proud of you. And you look, you actually look good.
Charla (23:45):
Secrets. You're not supposed to tell.
Marijanel (23:48):
I think our watchers and listeners know us good enough by now.
Charla (23:51):
Yeah. That's true.
Marijanel (23:52):
Um, no, it's just, it's been amazing to show up for every single one, and I am so looking forward to what's ahead and, um, and the ideas for the summer sessions are going to be really fun. So, um, have those summer drinks ready, and we'll, we'll still be airing at the same scheduled time. They'll just be a different flavor. I actually wanna pick new music. That's a thing when seasons change. So we'll get some new music, few more new graphics and, and splash it up for the summer hot topics.
Charla (24:27):
Yes. It's gonna be great.
Marijanel (24:29):
Yeah. Yeah. So thanks for tuning into the Bold Artist podcast. And for hearing us talk about how to call our paintings done. Those were, there were some real nuggets of wisdom there, Charla.
Charla (24:42):
Oh, I have one more. Yes. It's it's this isn't my saying. I heard it, I think from this architect that I just love and was so such an inspiring guy, I listened to, I think it was the architect. I actually forget where I heard it from, but he's in my head whenever I say it. And he said, and he's an architect, not a painter. And he talked about the process of figuring out when your work is done as an artist. And he said, your work is done when you stop talking to the work, and the work starts talking back to you. And I thought that was just so beautiful. And I've, I've used that sometimes in the studio I've been sitting there, and I'm trying to draw to close. I've got splatter all over the place and I'm like, is this piece done? And I look at it and I'm like, hang on a second. Have I given you a chance to speak to me? And it sounds all crazy and silly and whatever, I'm an artist I can say and do whatever I want. So, I look at the piece and I'm like, are you speaking? And sometimes the piece is like, yes, I've been speaking for an hour, and you still splash me with paint.
Marijanel (25:41):
And you won't listen.
Charla (25:42):
Well, leave me alone. But it's true. You just like, you allow what you wanted to put in there to kind of speak back to you, and it can work. I don't know. I think this worth trying. It's I, I's think it was one of the most beautiful things that I've ever heard about when to call a painting done.
Marijanel (25:59):
Yeah. That's a good one to stop
Charla (26:01):
Yeah.
Marijanel (26:01):
and see if the painting is speaking to you.
Charla (26:05):
yeah.
Marijanel (26:05):
Um, I'm gonna remember that. That might even go on my studio wall.
Charla (26:09):
Yeah.
Marijanel (26:09):
So, thank you for tuning into the Bold Artist podcast everyone. We're so happy to have you here. Don't forget to get on the Bold School email list. Check out boldschool.com on Instagram. We're at Bold School, Inc. And we look forward to having conversations with you there. Until next time, keep creating.
