Ep 57 Fine Art Vs Illustration (FINAL VIDEO)
[00:00:00] Marijanel: So you might be creative, and you might make a lot of things, but are you even an artist? And if you are an artist, are you making the right kind of art to survive the multiverse of creativity?
[00:00:18] Charla: I love that you're asking people, are you even an artist? Because I think that gets people, um, like, gets their back up, you know, like, well, of course I am
It could also bring people down. 'Cause like, no, I'm definitely not an artist. I know I never was. But it's such a good question to ask people like, how do you even know you're an artist? Like, what is an artist? What is this multiverse of creativity? What does, what is the arts? Where did it start? Where does it end?
What does it mean? Is your art... And I don't mean, are you making good art or is your art better than my art? But is what you are doing more defined as art than what I'm doing. So if I'm stacking marshmallows and calling it a, a snowman, is your oil painting of, of some of like a, a Michelangelo character more important?
Or is that real art and my, my snowman is not art. Like what is that? What is a marshmallow snowman versus an oil painting?
[00:01:17] Marijanel: Well, I saw a friend post on media the other day, this giant scribbled mural. And she said a kindergartener could do this, and they call it art, and they're, they're charging a million dollars for it.
And I think about those judgments that we pass on. This art is worth it. This art isn't, this one takes more time. This one doesn't. This art is considered fine art. You know, 'cuz there is that whole stigma to oil painting being, you know, more prestigious than acrylic. Or that maybe illustration isn't even fine art.
These are all stigmas and, and questions that are looming out there that really there isn't solid answers for, it's a conversation to be had.
[00:02:00] Charla: Yeah.
[00:02:00] Marijanel: I've even had my, in my world as a, as a potter and sculptor, and in that season of life, when I was doing that, I had questions like, am I even an artist or am I considered a craftsman and a crafter?
Which, I think it's both. And so sometimes I think there's these nagging little questions inside of us as creators and is what I'm doing fine art or considered art.
[00:02:27] Charla: I think, I mean, I think this conversation is really deep and really wide and it really, I think, should begin with a real logical, factual look at like the history of art, what all the art movements mean.
You know, what are the definitions of them all, but, um, which could be like a really long, boring book. If we wrote one. It could be short and exciting.
[00:02:51] Marijanel: Yeah. How do we make that a work of art? A piece of art that is engaging? But you know, it, it probably does come to the way, like the old worldview versus the new worldview.
And I know you've, you've had a couple thoughts about that.
[00:03:06] Charla: Yeah, I think, um, yeah, I've got a lot of thoughts. It's, it's a good, good idea to try and order them so people, other people can make sense of them. 'Cuz it can go in a lot of different directions. I think, like, we started this conversation with discussing is illustration fine art?
And I remember one of my first questions was, why does that even matter? What's fine art anyways?
[00:03:27] Marijanel: Well I can interject right there and say why it matters to me. As an illustrator, uh, I, I have struggled at times with feeling like, is my art as considered fine art as the other fine artists that I'm in community with?
So there's artists that I'm in community with that are oil painting and doing big pieces and very specialized gallery work and this, this sort of thing. And my form of art and what is what I even consider fine art is very different. And when you go in, you research it, and I look up, like if I just type into Google illustration versus fine art, there's a lot of different viewpoints.
Some of them are the viewpoint that it matters, which intention you make the artwork, meaning fine art is when you just express yourself for no, no thought or giving no, like, uh, I guess, what is the word? Like no thought towards the viewer. And that would be like just self-expression. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks about when they look at it. Whereas illustration, then there's this definition that an illustrator is still creating high quality, but they are always conscious of the viewer because they're there to tell a story and relay a message. Well then you and I have gotten into long conversation about, but your work is fine art, and you're still relaying a message. Does that make you an illustrator? And so the lines blur and...
[00:05:07] Charla: They do
[00:05:08] Marijanel: Yeah. And so that, that's why it mattered to me as an illustrator to be able to say I also consider what I do as an illustrator to be fine art, but according to a lot of definitions out there, it might not be.
[00:05:22] Charla: Yeah, I think it's a good idea to look at the standard definitions of what they mean, and it's a really good to know where you are, what you are doing, why you're doing it, how you can present it to the world, where you can go with it in the world,, so that you can make goals and make plans that aren't convoluted because you don't really even know what you're doing.
Like, if you're making marshmallow snowman, what are you gonna do with that? It's going to rot eventually. Well, maybe some marshmallows wouldn't. But you know, you kind of need to know where you're headed. I think it's really important to do to, to have a basic understanding of what you're doing and where you can go with it.
But I think is really, really true that the lines are blurred because when you even look at fine art as like something that is one of a kind piece of expression, rather than telling a story that it's something that would hang in a museum, then, then where does installation art come? Because a lot of installation art is very temporary and I've, I have trouble with understanding installation art, but there's some incredible, uh, um, examples of installation art in the world and someone that comes to my mind, who I would certainly consider a fine artist, but definitely crosses a lot of boundaries, and I think that's his point anyways, is the graffiti artist, Banksy. And he, I would, I just love this story. He, so he had a show, or he didn't have a show, but his work was shown here in Kelowna recently, so it was the first time I got to see his stuff in real life. and he's a graffiti artist that was, uh, , known for, because of his political, uh, messages in his work that he was doing, and because he was a graffiti artist, which is, um, illegal to do graffiti, he was, there was a bounty on his head basically. And to this day, nobody even knows still who he is. And he's had huge shows, and his work sells for millions of dollars.
Like, it's, it's really, really interesting story. So anyways, he had this one really famous piece called Girl with the Balloon, and uh, there was like a big story about how his work was selling on auction, and this person bought it for just under a million pounds, which I think was, uh, 1.2 million dollars in the US at the time.
And when the auctioneer, apparently the story goes when the auctioneer was like, okay, they've accepted the bid as sold, the gavel went down, like sold, it actually triggered something to happen to this piece of art, which was his stencil of girl with a balloon on a, on paper in a frame, that something triggered and there was a shredder built into the frame.
And the painting, the i, the art went down through the shredder. Shredder. So it's self-destructed as soon as it was purchased. So this person paid 1.2 million US dollars for a piece of art that was destroyed immediately afterwards. What is that? You know, like, yeah. What is that in the world of art?
Like he's, he. He's, he's always got such a massive, um, message to his work, a point he's pointing, he's trying to make. And I would consider him a fine artist, yet he crosses the boundaries of installation. He crosses the boundaries of illustration. Uh, people would say he's a political activist, you know, like there's so many different labels that we could call him.
So he is, I think, a really great example of how blurry the line can be. And does it even really matter what you consider yourself to be, because I think in this world you can do anything with anything, anywhere. If you've got the idea, you can really have the opportunity to make it happen in our world today.
[00:09:05] Marijanel: Which is what we meant in the beginning when I used the word multiverse, we live in this,
this wide multiverse, if you can imagine the universe. But our creativity is just so wide. And I think a lot of times as creators, we think of it as linear. And I have, in my own life, I've, I've seen my progression in the arts to be a linear progress where I, I say, oh, well I entered the arts in performing arts, and then I did this, and then I did this.
And then that led to, uh, photography. And then my photography led to pottery. And then my pottery led to illustration, and I see it very linear. And I had a good friend say, Marijanel, look at it more like a sphere, where you are talent, and, and depending on the se, the stage or season of life, this fear just changes how it shows to the world. And by starting to think of it less linear and more of a whole, that I am a whole creative person, and if I want to make a point or tell a story through illustration, I can do that. If I want to craft and produce. a hundred pieces of pottery all the same, I can do that. If I want to make one photograph that only gets printed once and hangs in a gallery, I could do that.
And all of it is art and it is more than likely all fine art it. But the definitions out there might not agree. But the artist, the artist themselves is what brings out the art from the inside out. And that's where the art comes from, it's about, oh, the inside out part. Not about necessarily what we produce or how we define what we produce.
[00:10:58] Charla: Yeah. I think there's probably a lot of people out there that I would call a purist, you know, who, who want to define it and stick within that definition. Um, they would be a purist in the art world, probably if you were looking at it in the social media world, business world, we would say they're very niche.
[00:11:17] Marijanel: Right.
[00:11:17] Charla: Right. Like really niche down as a purist. You know, they're an oil painter after Michelangelo, you know, and they, they're very, it is very important their process and how they varnish and everything about their process to be very pure. Um, and then there's people who throw it all together and create incredible work.
And it's, um, maybe unpure. You're looking at the opposite.
[00:11:40] Marijanel: Maybe it's the multiverse, maybe it's..
[00:11:42] Charla: It's the multiverse.
[00:11:43] Marijanel: It's the sphere and not so linear. Yeah.
[00:11:45] Charla: Yeah. It's non-linear. And we had this conversation in our comparison, uh, was it our comparison episode where we talked about the linearities and non-linearities.
And creative minds are very non-linear. So to put ourselves in a linear definition is really difficult for an artist I think. An artist who's innovative, I think. This, this is probably a controversial statement, but a purist artist I would go so far to say is not very innovative in their work.
They're more than likely, really, you know, they, it's, it's not a, a positive or negative, um, thing, it's, it's very much about loving an art form and wanting to do it. Like, I love embroidery, so embroidering little flowers on little canvases, it's not innovative, but maybe I just love to do it. Actually, I love to crochet blankets.
It is not innovative. I follow patterns. I just get colors. I just make blanket after blanket. It's not innovative.
[00:12:48] Marijanel: Yeah.
[00:12:48] Charla: So it's a pure form of something that I really, really enjoy making . So this is where you can kind of look at the idea of an artisan and a craftsman. Uh, I think that the definitions we had written down were like, fine art, illustration, craftsman, an artisan to attempt to like see what these things are because a craftsman can can be somebody who, who does, who isn't necessarily innovative, innovating in their process, but they're doing it really, really well.
And like an artisan is also similar to that, it's like the difference in, in an art, art artisan who makes sourdough bread is different than somebody who's, who's just pushing out Wonder Bread in a factory. You know, an artisan will make sourdough. It's very specific.
[00:13:33] Marijanel: It becomes an art form.
[00:13:34] Charla: Yeah, it's an art form, and you have to be skilled, and there's only so much innovation inside of making sourdough.
But I tell you, when you meet an sourdough artist, you will know the difference between their, their bread and wonder bread. Like you'll never go back to Wonder Bread ever again. So that's kind of how you can look at an artist and it's beautiful and it's necessary in our world. But an innovator as an artist, is somebody who's probably really going out of all of those boundaries. So it's a multiverse, 'cuz one part is no more important than the other part. They all play a role in making our world beautiful.
[00:14:15] Marijanel: Yes.
[00:14:15] Charla: And all of those different levels in making it beautiful. And I think all of them can be fine artists.
All every single one. Or illustrators.
[00:14:24] Marijanel: Yes. Well, I think, uh, earlier when I had mentioned the definitions I had found when Googling and that some will see it as the intention that an artist has, meaning, what is your intention? Uh, illustration is to include the viewer and make sure to give messages, where fine art might be to disclude them and just self-express.
And then there were some definitions that didn't have to do with intention but had to do with medium. And there's some very medium, heavy, uh, definitions of fine art versus other arts or other expressive, creative avenues. And that, um, was really interesting to read about, where some will, will categorize the mediums as that some are finer than others. That has never sat well with me as a creative. Um, I know there'll be some out there, very well educated, very successful artists who would, would strongly suggest or believe that mediums rank in different orders.
[00:15:27] Charla: Yeah.
[00:15:27] Marijanel: But I do see that as still a linear way of thinking and a, a very, um, I guess putting something, putting one form of medium higher, I think will disqualify other forms that still take just as much skill to master. And what you're saying about sourdough bread, um, there's a place in time for Wonder Bread. I'm gonna tell you that I don't make french toast without Wonder Bread. Like Wonder Bread makes the best French, French toast, but I will not just eat it with a soup like I would a sourdough. And so there's these place and times for different kind of, um, every kind of creation.
[00:16:10] Charla: I disagree there. I think Wonder Bread should be, like, wiped off the face of the earth.
[00:16:14] Marijanel: Your kids, your kids would like me for saying that. And they're. You, you go make them Wonder Bread, French Toast.
And you'll see that they'll, they'll be quite pleased with you.
[00:16:25] Charla: No. Never.
[00:16:25] Marijanel: Your kids don't eat gluten, do they?
[00:16:28] Charla: Never. I don't even think there's gluten in Wonder Bread.
[00:16:31] Marijanel: There you go. That's a good tester.
[00:16:33] Charla: I dunno what's in Wonder Bread.
[00:16:35] Marijanel: Well, put it this way, it's the only time I'll ever buy, I'll ever get Wonder bread.
My point being that there's these places and times for all creativity in the multiverse.
[00:16:44] Charla: Yeah.
[00:16:45] Marijanel: And to rank them, I think, or to, to put them one higher than the other or elevate a medium above another doesn't sit well with me. Um, and one of the reasons I think that I've felt that way is as an illustrator, I wanted to put aside my illustration and pursue other mediums because I felt that, that they were more important.
So I bought into that mindset. I really bought into it thinking, okay, well that's great that I'm talented here, but if I, if I just do this medium, it's better. It's looked at better. It's more prestigious, or I'll get better recognition, and that, that was really a, a fault of mine for a long time where I, I didn't accept the medium where I thrive.
And you know, they say out there where when something comes easy to you, you think, it's easy for everyone and therefore it's not important. And that has happened to me in the area of illustration where illustration does come easy to me. And so I think, oh, anyone could do it. I should pursue something harder for me.
And then I just kept putting it aside thinking, no, no, no, it's not, it's not good enough. And I had to really pull that out and dig deep inside me and like ask myself some tough questions saying, Why are you thinking it's not good enough? Is it that you've bought into thinking, oh, I should be this kind of painter because that's better and that that is the truth?
It I didn't see or recognize the validity or how special what it was that I had. And so, um, I think that there's a lot of artists out there who that happens to. I'm sure I'm not alone. Um, and I think there's a lot of illustrators who felt that way, or a lot of craftsmen that have felt that way, really compared up against the fine art world and, and thinking, well, it doesn't measure up. But it does.
It's not linear, and it's not ranked. We're this beautiful sphere. The multiverse is inside you.
[00:18:53] Charla: . Well, you know, I find it interesting because when you really look at where does this kind of question come from? The controversy who, who causes it? I think it's actually all the different forms of art they can, they compare themselves to the, um, I can't think of a nice word to use, the uppity part of the art world, right? The, the snobby like high-end gallery,
[00:19:18] Marijanel: Elite. Maybe elite is a good word.
[00:19:20] Charla: I'm probably thinking of a really nasty, bad word to explain.
[00:19:24] Marijanel: Elite.
[00:19:25] Charla: Now you know how I feel about it. But the elite of a society, of the art world. And probably because it's small, and it's difficult to get there and for some reason, we think that's the place to be.
I used to think that was the place to be. I'm an, I'm a painter, and where am I gonna see success? It's in a gallery. And then if I get into galleries, and I get represented by galleries, and I need to be represented by high end galleries so that my prices can go up, and I can become part of that elite world, so that I can make lots of money and be famous.
You know, that's kind of like, this, it's not a dream, it's just something that sits there that I think that's what I have to do as an artist. So it's that elite part of the world that's making us think that's our goal. And that's our aim as artists. So if you are not even a, a painter who would put something in a gallery, not that paintings the only thing that goes in the gallery, then, then I can see how you would very quickly think, well, am I even, uh, a valuable artist because I, that's not even a place I can ever put my art. So, but we for some reason have that in our minds as the place to end up. If you end up there, then you're definitely an artist. But it's so untrue.
So first thing you have to do is recognize, is that a place I even wanna go? If it is, fine, go after it. Because you know, it is a part of our world, and it's an interesting part of our world. But if it's not a place that you wanna go, then where are you actually, where, where are you headed? And that's what you go for.
[00:20:54] Marijanel: Yeah.
[00:20:54] Charla: And, and be the artist, you know, for that path. Yeah. I think about, um, I think Michelangelo is a really good example. 'Cause if we look at the old world versus new world, we look at art history, timelines of art, it really brings a lot of this, um, into perspective and recognize that this question has actually been asked all through history and there's been a controversy.
[00:21:18] Marijanel: It's not new to me?
[00:21:19] Charla: Not new to you.
[00:21:20] Marijanel: It's not a Marijanel problem.
[00:21:22] Charla: Not new to you or your genre of art or your medium of art. and it's just like this, like snobbery that happens between all of the different forms of art. And I remember really specifically learning about the history of art and the history of photography and when photography was in, um, introduced into the art world, there was a massive controversy.
Like there's, there's so much written about it, um, in art history because the painters, I think, felt threatened by photography because painters. were the ones that were, interestingly enough, illustrating history. Michelangelo, in my mind, was an illustrator. He was illustrating the Bible. That was what the most of art history is about is is the history of the Bible, illustrating the Bible. And Michelangelo, you know, did the Sistine Chapel ceiling and there's David that everyone goes to see.
Like, that was the beginning of a lot of art history. And then, um, when, and, and then there a lot of, uh, working artists were people who painted portraits of people that could afford their portraits to be painted. Because it was the only way to have a portrait of your family was through an artist, a painter.
So when photography came along, this, this part of the world was threatened because they recognized that photography might take over. So, they had to prove themselves and make themselves more important. Like, that's how I kind of saw a lot of the controversies that were created. And then they said that, um, you know, photography could no way be fine art because you're just recreating something that you see. But of course photography, photographers, all throughout history has proven that to be wrong. Photography is definitely can be fine art and it can be applied and it can be representative. You know, there's so many different genres to it, depending on what you're called to do.
So just looking into history, you can see these lines are, are blurred. I really truly think Michelangelo has probably thought of as a fine art fine artist, but he was. In, in the definition an illustrator. So I think that throws everything on end.
[00:23:26] Marijanel: Yeah. Now in this podcast here with the two of us, Charla might be known as the fine artist and I would be known as the illustrator.
So what I was thinking, 'cuz Charla, we did a little side by side comparison of fine art and illustration. I was thinking you should read the fine art side, and I should read the illustrative side and tell our viewers and listeners what we found was the difference. Now, I personally don't feel it as so linear and that we're very spere-like, that there's a gray, blurry area. But, the internet does tell us a few differences.
So, to start off Charla's side, it was historically, it was, what you were saying was historically how was it used?
[00:24:08] Charla: Yeah. It like, I, I believe that it was used to illustrate the Bible, illustrate scripture, and to capture portraits for like commissioned portraits from different, um, people in society.
[00:24:22] Marijanel: That's fine art. So fine art coming from a background of illustrating.
[00:24:28] Charla: Yeah. And that's a very, um, brief idea. I know there's a lot more to art history than, than that, but when you think about historical pieces, you think about, um, there's like so many of Jesus and Mary, you know, Jesus on the cross and Mary holding baby Jesus.
And it was very much, it was, um, in the religious world where there was money for those types of things, and they were, um, commissioned to paint in, in all of these great cathedrals.
[00:24:57] Marijanel: And to document. So, in, in some ways a document the history.
[00:25:00] Charla: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:01] Marijanel: Tell the story and document the history. And then ownership wise.
[00:25:05] Charla: Um, fine art is looked at as a single owner. So, you know, you make one original piece. There can only ever be one original, but that's a little bit broken when we can, we look at fine art prints, which actually exists. They call them fine art prints. So it changes a little bit, but it's, is, does have an element of exclusivity.
But, um, I actually think, and you could say, speak to this, that so does illustration, right?
[00:25:34] Marijanel: Well, on the illustrative side of things, generally illustration is authorized for reproduction. The illustrator intends for copies to be made, whether it be through story books or illustrating graphics or... you know, the story is to be made and told.
So by being told you reproduce it, you get it out there. So I illustrate even for animations or, you know, turning it into something, I want it to spread, spread, spread. Whereas a lot of fine, fine art, let's imagine a very exclusive oil painting that's made for gallery where the idea is to get as many to come to view it there and to have single ownership that's like the price is driven up on that one piece.
[00:26:19] Charla: it's like the Mona Lisa, you could think about that. It's been reproduced a million times, but people travel just to see the Mona Lisa in person.
[00:26:26] Marijanel: Right. So it's so the fine art there, you. For these private displays, museums, galleries, and that exclusivity where, did I say that right? Exclusivity.
Exclusivity. I always add an extra 't'. Um, but in illustration, before there was photography, the primary medium for advertising was like drawings and book covers and, and you know, magazines. It was made to tell a story and made to be distributed. And widely distributed. And so that's really the essence of what we've seen between the two is maybe the purpose of distribution and, um, exclusivity.
[00:27:07] Charla: Yeah. And if you think of it historically of how, why it would come to be that way if the main medium as a fine artist would be oil paint. Oil paint, um, was expensive. It was difficult to get certain colors. It took, it was a long period to create an oil painting and let it dry. But illustration when it was something that wanted, they wanted to use for posters, like war propaganda, you know, like all those types of labels for, uh, maybe medical stuff or whatever, they required illustrators to be able to create something quickly and have it to be able to be reproduced easily and quickly. Whereas oil paint wasn't able to do that. So even though there were a lot of artists working in that industry, they weren't able to easily switch into what illustration kind of maybe, I don't know the history of illustration very well, but I just imagine like it's just so much easier to, to reproduce something that was drawn with pen and Ink and, and I don't know how they would col, I don't know what the mediums were they would've used back then, probably a watercolor of some version.
And so they became exclusive because people didn't really have the time or even money to learn how to do both in those days when supplies were hard to come by. So you could see how it would become very different.
[00:28:23] Marijanel: Yes. One though, you know, I just want to, to draw attention to this is that even though it might be quicker and easier in a sense to illustrate, I, from my experience, have found it doesn't make you less masterful because the illustrator might be able to produce quicker and make a re, like render a drawing or a sketch or an ink, you know, an ink picture, but, and they might be able to do that quickly, but it comes from years of repetition and experience to be able to do that.
So I don't like looking at it like, well, one takes a long time and it's more valuable 'cuz it takes that much time. I could say if someone came into my studio and they took one of my illustrations that might have actually taken me an hour to render, I might not answer them that it took an hour.
I might say to them, it took a lifetime. It took a lifetime of experience to lead up to that one illustration. So we might be able to render things quicker, but I also don't see them as less valuable because of that, um, or less valuable because we, um, reproduce.
[00:29:29] Charla: Yeah.
[00:29:29] Marijanel: And so a lot of artists, like we've talked about monetizing our art on previous shows and, um, you know, we've encouraged artists to make art cards, or to consider it, you know, to consider making art cards or making prints or ways to reproduce what they're, you know, to generate in common, to monetize if they want an art business.
And that is crossing that line into what we described illustration to be, where it's designed to reproduce. So then does that become a gray area or a blurry line? Um, I think every artist has to decide for themselves what their intention is behind what they're creating. And remember, it might not always be the same, and it might not be linear.
It might be a sphere of creativity. This multiverse, as we, we call it today, of creativity, that you decide in a given time or season of your career, your art career, what you're going to put out there and how you're gonna put it out there.
[00:30:34] Charla: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think, like, I see it. I love this sphere idea, and if you look at it as a spectrum where there, there could be like overlap of blur, like a more linear spectrum, I think you would look at a purist maybe if, if it's fine art versus illustration, there would be a purist in fine art here.
As somebody who only works in oil, who only paints, um, uh, portraits in the style of Renoir or something like that. And then over here you've got an illustrator who only creates in, I don't even know what, um, and what would be ideal for an illustrator, but I would say like pen, pen and ink or something like that.
And only creates for a certain type of like a poster, like maybe those vintage posters or something, you know, very pure. But then, and it's the only thing they do and I almost feel like you can't do anything else if you wanna be pure. You, you have to stick with that. Which to me would be really boring.
And then you begin to have all of these layers across, over and in the middle. Everything is just kind of stuck together. Where an oil painter can create paintings that are very illustrative. And I think an illustrator can use so many different types of mediums these days. Like, um, I would consider markers to probably be in the illustration world more than they would be considered in the fine art world.
And yet you can create something that looks like a painting with markers. So, and is a painting fine art? I don't even know. I don't think that it is. Right. And drawings can be fine art. So what's the difference in a drawing and an illustration? They cross over in many, many areas. So there's like this massive big bulge of blurred layers, and then they kind of go out into these little purist places, you know, in the world. But I think for the most part, everybody works in, in the, within the blurred lines of this multiverse.
[00:32:29] Marijanel: The blurred lines and the shift in creativity, like the multi-form of art. Because I'm not sure, uh, I know earlier in the show you mentioned. Artists that are really niche down and only do one form of medium and maybe not innovating outside of that medium. I think a lot of times they're innovative inside their medium, but not necessarily outside. But I haven't met too many like that. If you really dig deep asking artists enough questions, which we did in even in season one of the Bold Artist Podcast, but if you ask enough questions, they usually have. Other side, um, creative endeavors going on, you know?
[00:33:12] Charla: Yeah.
[00:33:13] Marijanel: What, whatever that may be.
[00:33:14] Charla: You call them hobbies, side hobbies that turn into
[00:33:17] Marijanel: Hustle. Hobbies. They're, they're exploring outside that it's, it's, um, unusual to find an artist who only does one creative thing. That might be the creative thing. They might do one creative thing that the world sees and recognizes them for, but yeah, they, they often exploring all kinds of creative mediums.
[00:33:34] Charla: Yeah.
[00:33:34] Marijanel: Because that's the multiverse that's inside of us. We have this, you know, bubbling creativity that we wanna try things.
[00:33:40] Charla: We wanna live on the edge. We don't wanna be in a place of order and production. Right? We wanna be on the edge.
[00:33:46] Marijanel: Which has been what surprised me about, um, just seeing definitions that were out there when I Googled it. I'm surprised that artists ourselves want to define ourselves and put ourselves in a box to that different definition. And it's interesting reading about it because it's not. , other people, non-artists that are making up these definitions. It's artists.
It's artists who are saying this is what a fine artist is and this isn't. Is is what isn't.
[00:34:18] Charla: Yeah.
[00:34:18] Marijanel: And I'm scratching my head thinking, but don't we want to have some freedom, like not have boxes telling us what is or what isn't? Can we be spheres and not linear?
[00:34:30] Charla: Yeah. It's, and well, I guess it's a hard thing when you need like specific language to talk about things.
[00:34:37] Marijanel: Yeah.
[00:34:37] Charla: If you wanna learn a technique, you wanna be able to search it properly to find that technique. So it's good to know what box that technique sits in. I think maybe that's where it becomes important. I think it becomes dangerous for an artist to put themselves in one of those boxes because, Well, not because, but I think you need to know why you're putting yourself there.
Maybe you, you are, maybe you're a purist and you only want to do this thing. So it's, it's kind of an easy decision to make, but it can be dangerous if you think that one thing is better than the other, or one thing will earn you more money or more, um, fame or whatever it is that you might be be looking for.
It's dangerous to think that you should be a fine art oil painter because it's more prestigious. But your gifting is in sculpture, you know, have this wire sculpture because we, I think, and this is what our message always comes down to, is that we're all unique, and we're given unique paths to follow.
So you have something to share with the world, and there's specific people out there who need to hear and see and experience what you have to share. If you think you have to share oil paintings, but you're actually meant to share wire sculptures, then the people meant to get those wire or to experience those wire sculptures won't get to experience those wire sculptures.
[00:35:57] Marijanel: It's true.
[00:35:58] Charla: And they're important because sculpture serves an incredibly unique purpose in comparison with an oil painting. So we can't, the danger comes in thinking one is better than the other. One is more prestigious, or you'll make more money because if it's not meant for you, it's not gonna work out for you.
Your art is important. Your message, you're calling, what you have to make is important for the people who need. To experience those things.
[00:36:22] Marijanel: I love it that you're using the example of wire sculptures when really, I know you're talking to me about my illustration. Like she's really trying, I'm like, she's really trying to get a point across.
Charla came to my studio and saw my illustrations and she's like, why aren't you doing something with this ? I, I, I am. I am.
[00:36:43] Charla: Well, I think sometimes, You know, you walk in and you just see these beautiful, all this, all this work. You had all kinds of different artwork around your studio. But what I was drawn to was the illustration, and I wanted to see more like it was a full, genuine experience.
I wanted to see more of your illustrations. I'm like, why is there no more for me to look at? And yet there was so many other things to look at. I just wanted to see more of those. And then I just feel in my spirit somewhere that this is what I want to see more of you making, I'm not the authority in your life, but that's what I want.
[00:37:15] Marijanel: Well, I gonna see...
[00:37:16] Charla: Well, the same thing was other people say that to you too.
[00:37:18] Marijanel: Yes. You're not alone in saying that. And actually I wanna see more of it, as well. And since that time that you came here and we had this talk at is, is actually what prompted our very first illustration versus finer versus craftsmanship talk,
we, we talked about it that day here in my studio and um, it really opened up for me a can of worms where I had to just look at all the different thoughts that I had, where they were stemming from, how I was ranking things, how I was seen as very linear, and come to that place of like accepting, um, that I could embrace myself as an illustrator and not feel less than.
And that was an identity thing. So in some ways, all that we've talked about today hasn't been about the definitions between all the different art forms? It's been about identity, and it's been about being willing to, to follow what we know we're called to do, which is what Charla mentioned here about message and purpose.
And so that's been something that I've personally been challenged with as an artist and illustrator. And so, um, just sharing it here today has been a pleasure. Hoping, you know, some of our podcasts give tips and give all kinds of, you know, educational input into your life as an artist. But today it's been more of a conversation of just saying, how do we see these beliefs?
How are they affecting our, our art? How are they affecting our lives as creatives and, and our view of the multiverse. And, and that, that's a pleasure to bring and to open that conversation with you today. We'd love to hear in the comments right here in YouTube. Um, how you've seen the multiverse of creativity.
Do you see it like linear or a sphere? Do you see a difference between fine art and illustration? You can share your thoughts. We're really open to hearing it and
[00:39:17] Charla: I'd like to hear if you know of people that are using mediums in really unique ways. I love finding those artists that are probably use, doing something very specific, but are innovating and doing it completely different than somebody else has done it. Or even a, a purist, like, I think purists are actually hard to find these days. Even if, you know a purist who uses a medium in a very pure way, and is like just doing really, really well. I'd love to see some of those things in the comments or, or tag us, um, on, on a platform where we can go and check them out for ourselves.
I, I am so inspired by finding people in various mediums doing work. It, that's not something that makes me feel like I have to jump and do what they're doing, but it's really exciting to see them succeeding and really going for it and making beautiful things in these unique ways. So share those with us.
[00:40:08] Marijanel: Absolutely. Even, even private message and, and let us know. Absolutely. Make sure that you're on our mailing list @boldschool.com to be in the know and get all the news of the classes and all kinds of happenings that we have going on inside of our Bold School community. And you might even want to watch and listen to episode 56 of this podcast that we have on Comparison. Really good show to compliment this one. And, um, yeah, so,
[00:40:33] Charla: And also, Marijanel has her own YouTube channel where some of her illustrations are shown and some of her processes. She even, I know one of your, um, ones that caught my eye was when you, you're making a set for a puppet that you have where she's building a set of mushrooms for this little puppet, but you have to go find out for yourself.
So she has her own channel where you can see some really unique, interesting things being done and created in her multiverse studio. That's what I would call her studio.
[00:41:07] Marijanel: It's a multiverse studio.
[00:41:09] Charla: So what is your, we'll have it linked down below, but what is your channel?
[00:41:13] Marijanel: It's my name, Marijanel. Yeah, so M A R I J A N E L
[00:41:18] Charla: Yeah. And for now, like definitely go check out her channel, share with us your unique mediums, but go and watch episode 56 on how to compare, how to compare your art and yourself and your work with others in a really kind of healthy way so that you're not damaging, you're not doing any damage to yourself and your identity as an artist.
But go and watch that, and I think it'll just really open up your mind on how you can pursue this idea of understanding all the different genres, all the multiverse of art. Understanding that in a healthy way. So go watch episode 56.
[00:41:55] Marijanel: And thank you for joining us today on The Bold Artist Podcast. And we hope that until next time you keep creating.
[00:42:02] Charla: Well, you know you're bored . You know you're bored when you're, you're cutting your hair before the time.
[00:42:09] Marijanel: It doesn't look right. We can't start the show until I take that piece off. Now we can start.
[00:42:16] Charla: Oh if only they could see everything.
[00:42:18] Marijanel: Cut my hair
[00:42:19] Charla: I'm crying.