Ep 61 Creativity and Sleep (FINAL VIDEO)
[00:00:00] Marijanel: Do you wanna make work that is original and unique? And did you know that your sleep and creativity are highly connected? Later in the show, Charla's gonna tell us about a dream that really influenced her artwork.
[00:00:18] Charla: That's why I think that sleep and creativity are closely related, not just because I think we, we know that sleep requires, uh, we sleep is required because it, it makes us rested and gives us clearer thoughts and energy.
But sleep is also required for creativity and to help us make original work, like you just said, like unique work. because it actually affects our creativity depending on how we sleep well, but also depending on how we dream and how we use our dreams.
[00:00:55] Marijanel: Yeah.
[00:00:55] Charla: And that might sound a little bit weird for some people, but there's, it's actually science, like dreams are real. They're not, they're not weird and wishy-washy ideas. They're real. And there's science behind our dreams and how they work and how they affect us. And it's really, really closely related to creativity in lots of different ways. But today we're, I'm gonna share with you like one way that I learned recently, which I found really, really interesting and wanted to share.
[00:01:21] Marijanel: Yeah. And you know, it's, it's interesting because as a highly creative person, there's two things that I've really protected in my life. Well, for my whole life. I have protected my sleep. I've been very, very possessive of my sleep. I go to bed early. I also get up early, but I make sure like I do everything possible to succeed at sleeping, uh, to get rid of distractions and make sure it's quiet.
And, you know, I just. I just go to length to protect my sleep, and notice that in seasons of my life where I didn't sleep so good, my creativity was way down too. Later in my life, as I've aged, I also protect my exercise because I notice that my creative levels and just my emotional mental wellbeing is so much more stable when I'm exercising regularly.
So my sleep and my exercise are just these two things that are like ultimate self-care for me. But it's also that way because I'm, I'm like, my creativity is such a treasure. I really treasure it. I really nurture it in my life, and I don't wanna see that diminish. So I protect it. And one of the ways is through sleep for sure.
[00:02:31] Charla: I think, like, when you think about sleep, I think a lot of people talk about sleep. I know a lot of people talk about sleep and we know it's important yet there's lots of times when we don't really lo I, I anyways, don't really, um, nurture it or take care of it. I was like a night owl for a really long time and now there's times where I just like to stay up after my kids go to bed, ;cuz usually I go to bed before them these days.
But I think about, um, I kind of, I, I find that I quickly forget how important sleep is when I'm going to bed early, and I'm getting a good eight hours of sleep, and everything's going fine, and then all of a sudden I have a few late nights in a row, and then it just feels like out of the blue. I can't think straight.
My days are like, my brain's foggy. I'm not getting anything done, and it's because I stayed up late too many times.
[00:03:18] Marijanel: And think of how that affects you as an artist. Just, it affects, it's gonna trickle down and affect your artwork.
[00:03:24] Charla: Yeah. It's something that you just so quickly forget how powerful it is to our bodies to not actually get sleep.
And I have, like, my cousin has a young baby right now and she's like totally overwhelmed, and every time I see her it's like she's thinking, well, I'm not really doing this, and I'm not making headway in my career. And I'm like, you have a baby. You know, like you've been through a lot, and you're not sleeping.
You cannot expect to do the same things you were doing a few years ago. And it won't last in a couple of years you will be, or even less than that, you'll be sleeping again, and then your productivity will increase again. Your creative thoughts will increase again. Come back. But it is like when we see like young moms with babies, and they're struggling. Like, I remember what that was like.
[00:04:11] Marijanel: Yeah.
[00:04:12] Charla: But I, but in that moment, I actually was really hard on myself, even though I knew that I was not getting my sleep, but I was still hard on myself thinking I should be able to produce the same amount as I always did. But it's not true.
And we give grace to new moms. And if we are lacking sleep for some reason, like right now I have an aging dog, and she likes to get up at night. And I've had to decide, okay, if I'm getting up twice a night with her, I have to give myself a little bit grace in the morning that I don't have to get up at 5:00 AM if I was already up twice . So, and I think there's, there's ways we can look at those types of things too so that we're not always hard on ourself for, for not making it happen.
[00:04:53] Marijanel: Yeah.
[00:04:54] Charla: And just recognizing you're not gonna be the same if you don't sleep.
[00:04:56] Marijanel: Yeah, for sure. You know, when my daughter was young and she's 18 now, so I can tell this story and not embarrass her too much, but when she was young, I quit one of her feedings, so I was getting up all night with her feedings.
You know, someone would ask my husband, Hey, does your baby sleep at night? And he's like, oh yeah. And I'm like, um, no she doesn't. Because he slept through it. So finally the five o'clock feeding was just wearing on me. And one day, you know, she was just a wee little thing. She wasn't even a year old yet. But I just said to the two of them, I quit that feeding. So you two are gonna have to deal with it, . And they did, they did just fine without me. So I, I was the quote unquote mean mom that quit the feeding, but I just had to sleep after a year of getting up that many times, I was like, I'm done.
So, you know, because I mean, science backs it. It's like the sleep brings us the health and clarity. it, you know, it builds our immune system and our bodies heal when we're sleeping. It brings us rest and energy. But then there comes that really wonderful thing that I know you're looking forward to talking about, and that's our dream world and our dream cycle. Because artists are dreamers, we fuel and produce a lot of our, our art and creativity from not only nighttime dreams, but daytime daydreaming.
[00:06:24] Charla: Yeah.
[00:06:24] Marijanel: You know, it, our dream world is so important to our creativity.
[00:06:29] Charla: Yeah, I think, okay, so this, this dream thing is deep and wide. There's a lot of aspects to come at it.
And this is by no means going to be a thorough investigation of dreams and creativity. Um, I, I like learning how to interpret dreams, I think, and to put it in a really light way, there are metaphors for what is happening in our daily life. They can be metaphors for what you're consciously thinking about and problem solving in your daily life.
But it can also be, can really bring up deep things that are in you that you may not recognize you're struggling with, or you're trying to problem solve about an issue deep in your subconscious and they come out in your dreams. So if you pay attention to your dreams, you write them down, or I usually only pay attention when one is really, really strong, I wake up and I can't forget about it for a few hours. I think it would be really smart, wake up, write down what you remember cuz you forget them so quickly. But if a dream is like sitting with me throughout the day, I'm like, I think that dream is important, and I'll write it down and I'll really think it through.
And I like, um, trying to figure out what they meant, like interpreting them, and I use different resources or whatever. I don't spend a ton of time on this. I just, I'm really interested in it and I would like to spend more time on it. But I was looking on YouTube and I was researching the neuroscience of creativity, which I got, went down a big rabbit hole one day of learning this,
And I found this really interesting, um, scientific view of our dreams and how they work in, in our creative minds or spirits or whatever. And it starts with the idea that creativity, um, creative brain works from random association, and why you become creative is because you can take an idea that's way out on this side of the universe, and an idea that's way out on the other side of the universe, and bring them together and innovate something by like smashing the, those ideas together and you innovate a new idea, something that no one's ever thought about before.
But they're not usually ideas that, like come from the dust, like come from nothing. They're usually random associations. And science shows that the more creative a, a mind is, the more, uh, random these associations are. And I tried this on my kids and I was like, what I mean is like when you say a word and then you say what comes right to your mind?
So I was like, what do you think of when I say toothbrush And one, one of my sons just brought something right out of the air, like, I don't even know what it was, but skyscraper, . And then my other son was like, toothpaste, . And I, and I just burst out laughing because I was like, okay, so there's an example of two creative brains.
One barely had a disassociation, 'cuz toothpaste is very closely related to toothbrush, but my other son just pulled something, what seems like out of the air, but there was, it wasn't skyscraper, it was something else, but there was an association in his own mind. It's just that it was very far removed from other minds who can only take that little small move to toothpaste.
And I made fun of my, we made fun of my son a little bit, and he laughed and, and I said, but you don't have to think you're not creative because that's where you went. Um, you, it's kind of sometimes just in your understanding of that question you think you have to have something closely associated.
But what you can do is practice random association. And this guy that was actually, um, that, I don't remember who he was now, but the neuroscience guy, he was using toothbrush as an example, and he said every time he brushes his teeth at night, he practices random association, tries to bring something really far removed from the initial idea, which is toothbrush.
[00:10:14] Marijanel: Right.
[00:10:15] Charla: And so it is like, that's just how you can practice it. You can actually become more creative by practicing random association. Mm-hmm. . So that long introduction is, brings us to dreams and how our dreams and why they're so weird. and why they jump around so, so quickly. You know, you can go from one place to the next and all these week it's hard to describe them because they're so weird, you know?
It's because our subconscious is really good at random association, and it's bringing all of these random associations that we have in our subconscious together to tell a story that's important to our world. So they're actually really, really creative. Like our dreams are very, very creative because it's randomly associating ideas to tell a story.
So, interpreting, interpret, interpreting , interpreting a dream is difficult because you have to recognize that these things don't go together. They're not, it's not, um, apples for apples in the real world. So that's why dream interpretation is difficult. And, uh, you can't just, if you dream of something really weird, it's not really about you thinking or feeling that thing, it's about what it means to you. So, and I, I just find that so interesting.
So this guy talked about that you can prime your, your creativity through your dreams and as adults, the reason this is can be effective and really interesting is because as adults in our conscious lives, you know, we're busy and we're distracted, and we have a hard time having unique thoughts during the day because we're, we're fixing problems.
We're living life, we're doing this, we're doing that, we're getting our chores done, our tasks done. And then when we stop to be creative, our mind is in product productive mode, you know? Like left brain mode. It's difficult to move into that other mode. So this guy talked about how there was a study done on a group of people who played a Tetris game before they went to sleep.
Then they went to sleep and he woke them up in dream mode. So you know, you can watch your sleep modes. And when they went into their dreams, he woke them up and then immediately asked them, what were you dreaming about? And they would say, Tetris. Because what they were thinking about is they went to sleep, was going to be in their dreams.
So now you know that you can think about something that's happened in your day, you're probably gonna dream about it. Your dreams are also bringing together a lot of random associations. So his theory was if you go to sleep at night, thinking about, uh, creative problems... you don't wanna go to sleep thinking about problems is gonna create anxiety. Definitely don't do that. But you know, these beautiful ideas that you have. You wanna paint some, like, I wanna go to sleep,, and I wanna paint something beautiful. I wanna maybe, you know, bring out this story or whatever it is. Or maybe color palettes. I don't wanna go to sleep anxious, but I wanna go to sleep thinking about something that I want to create.
Then there's a possibility that in your dream, you'll bring that into your dream. You'll randomly associate these ideas. And when you wake up, and hopefully you'll wake up remembering your dream, write it down and see what you can learn from it. And if you do this intentionally over time, I really think that you'll learn quite a bit about yourself.
You learn things about yourself. You'll learn things about your, your deep inner self. But you might just spark some creative ideas and creative thoughts. And there's many, many testimonies of people that have, have brought out, um, I mean, I'll say innovations rather than inventions, but ha things have come from their dreams.
Great ideas and stories and images, your titles for things, that have come from their dreams. It's, I also, that I am, I, I'm a Christian. I believe that God speaks to us through our dreams. That's like a whole other perspective. I do believe it's an opportunity to, to become closer and more open to the spirit world.
But I also think that in our natural selves, the way that our minds and our spirit and our, our brains just working, connect ideas, it's a natural scientific event that we can use for our.
[00:14:28] Marijanel: Yeah, I've a hundred percent felt like my dreams, uh, have had meaning. Like, certain dreams that I've had throughout my life have meant something and even caused pivots in my life. They've been dreams that have given me like indicators of what to do next or how to handle something. And I had, just to give a brief glimpse, I had a dream about a room that I had forgotten. It was a room in my own house. It was like I was dreaming about this room, like I had closed it up and prepared it for moving, but, like, forgot about it.
And in the dream, I opened the door and I started to like remove the covering off of furniture and refresh the room. And later I was telling a friend about this dream, and she had this amazing interpretation of what it meant for my art. And I was like having these light bulb moments listening to the interpretation of my own dream.
But I felt like that dream was a gift right from heaven. Like, it, it meant so much and it even had little clues in the dream about timing, and, like, meanings, and little symbolisms and stuff, and that doesn't happen to me regularly. I generally sleep really deeply. The only thing I might remember is, like, elbowing my husband to stop snoring or something, like, you know, I don't re, really wake up every day with, with a lot of memories of the dreams, but every once in a while I have them that are meaningful. And they kind of blow me away. In past episodes we've mentioned the Huberman Lab podcast. Um, Andrew Huberman is, um, a neuroscientist who has an amazing podcast all about the, you know, the brain educating us about the brain, and he has a couple of episodes that talk specifically about creativity and sleep.
There's one that we're gonna link in the show notes that sleep dreams, creativity, fasting and neuroplasticity. And it is part of what fueled me to wanna talk about the link between creativity and sleep because... you know what's interesting is here we are, we're doing this podcast today, Charla, and there could be artists listening that are frustrated because they have poor sleep.
Like there's all kinds of seasons of life, whether we got little babies that are crying at night, or an aging dog that's getting up twice a night or um, we have hormones, that keep us awake or whatever's going on in our world. Maybe there's just some that suffer with insomnia, so there could be frustration of hearing us talk about sleep and creativity being linked.
And for that, I do hope that everyone would feel like they could press forward for answers. Seeing a specialist getting the help you need to get the sleep you need. Um, but if you are someone who's listening, who isn't valuing your sleep or you're night owling yourself into your art that you're just like, you're not going to bed, and you're, you're making yourself exhausted or you're not valuing it, then I urge you to pay attention to your sleep and get the sleep you need because your creativity will be better for it.
[00:17:38] Charla: It's true we, we can both attest to that, like a hundred percent .
[00:17:43] Marijanel: Yeah.
[00:17:43] Charla: And I have heard, and I, I'm not sure if Huberman said this in this particular podcast, 'cause I did listen to it as well, but I have heard that it's more important to um, go to bed at the same time every night than it is to get up at the same, is that right? Am I getting that right? All of a sudden I'm like...
[00:18:00] Marijanel: I actually don't know. I don't remember whether it was important to go to bed at the same time, but, um, I do generally, I have like an hour of. of time, hour to hour and a half that is sort of like in that window I go to sleep, but I find my body will naturally wake up at the same time. Um, I'm, I'm a fairly early riser though, so my productivity and my most alert, prime mind time is when I first wake up, and so I wake up early when the house is still quiet and find that that's my real creative time and some artists do find that that's flipped around where they get a second wind in the night or in the evening, and they prefer to stay up late, which either way, I guess, like whichever way you choose to do it, as long. You're getting the sleep you need to do it. And everyone's sleep.
[00:18:50] Charla: Yeah. I think it's the time and quality of sleep that's important.
[00:18:52] Marijanel: Yeah. And everyone requires a different amount of sleep. Like my body's gonna be different than yours. And Huberman does, uh, talk about this in his podcast. And he also, he touches on some really interesting, um, tips that I hadn't considered before. Things like what time of day you are, you are having caffeine and, and sunlight.
He uses sunlight as a tool to wake himself up and trigger his mind like he, he, he goes into fascinating, very educational things.
[00:19:24] Charla: The sunlight one, to me, was really, really interesting because he said to be careful that you wake yourself up properly, which I've wondered about before because a lot of times I got into the habit at one point of opening up my phone, like waking up. And especially in the wintertime when it's still dark or getting up early and opening up my phone and looking at it. And I realized that by doing that, it actually woke me up. And when I got outta bed, I was more alert. So I was thinking, you know, I liked, I liked that feeling of not dragging myself outta bed, but being more alert.
And then I started thinking about why, and I thought, well, the blue light from the, from the, the screen wakes me up. Probably why it wakes me up, and I get to the bathroom and turn the light on. It's not quite so like blinding. But then I listen to Huberman and he is like, that's not what you're supposed to do, 'cause that's not real sunlight. And you're waking yourself up with the wrong type of light. And don't look at your screen first thing in the morning. And what he, he says to do is with, before or within the first hour of waking up, or the first 30 minutes to 60 minutes of waking up, you should expose your, your eyes to sunlight.
And if you can't, if you're, it's winter or you are waking up early and there's no sun, or it's a dreary day, you can use artificial light, artificial sunlight.
[00:20:39] Marijanel: Yeah. I used to have one of those light lamps or the, the, sunlight lamps.
[00:20:43] Charla: And it, it brings, it brings your body into the natural world right.
The way that you're supposed to, you know, in the olden days without all this crazy screens and technology and even the light bulb. It's the way that everybody woke up. They woke up with the sun and they went to bed when it got dark because there were no lights. And that's kind of what you want to replicate.
So you wanna wake yourself up with the right light energy. And at night, it's the same thing. When you go to bed, don't be putting these blue light screens in front of your face because it's it artificially waking you up.
[00:21:19] Marijanel: Right.
[00:21:19] Charla: And then your systems get all messed up.
[00:21:22] Marijanel: Yeah. Well, I love what you brought into the podcast today about Random Association and I was thinking to myself, you know, those games that they play, there's even shows, game show type things with ad lib for comedians or actors, they play these games. I think it would be fun to do random association with artists, where we play a game and just like see how creative we can get with random association because it's true. Some of the most incredible artwork has to do with the connection of random ideas and bringing them together and coming back to that point of, you know, you hear there's nothing new under the sun, and there's like nothing very original because we're just taking someone else's idea and putting a new spin on it. But, what is original is when you take multiple ideas and you bring them together in this random association, and you can make them new. You can make something that's completely inventive, innovative artwork because you're able to connect these unique dots, and I think that's what's exciting about creativity.
[00:22:29] Charla: Yeah.
[00:22:29] Marijanel: And it's also something we can't do if we're not taking care of ourselves. Our minds, our bodies, our health, sleep, exercise, good eating, all of it. And yeah. It's just, it's good stuff for us to come back to and be reminded of.
[00:22:43] Charla: Yeah. It requires an alert brain because it's, I found, because I've been practicing this random association ever since I've been listening, and I, I, I listened to, uh, a bunch of different people, not intentionally. I was just listening about the neuroscience and a bunch of different people who spoke about similar, that similar idea about the random associations. And so I've been practicing it, and I do find that if my mind is tired, I go from, you know, like, uh, a green plant to a tree , which is not much of a random.
[00:23:16] Marijanel: Not too random.
[00:23:18] Charla: But if my mind is alert, it, it jumps a whole bunch of levels really quickly, where I put those random associations in my own experience, right? Like, so my random association's different than yours because my experiences are different, and I associate all of these experiences and visual things, or smells even. And then I grab something. So if my head is alert, if my mind is alert. and I'm thinking clearly, you know, and all of these spaces are open and bright, I can jump further than I can when I'm tired and everything is shut down and turned off.
[00:23:53] Marijanel: Yeah. Okay.
[00:23:54] Charla: So you need to be alert to be creative.
[00:23:56] Marijanel: So do you wanna tell us the story about your dream and the, the artwork that was influenced by. Dream. Well, I've had several pieces of art influenced by dreams and I, well often if I wake up and I look at my art and I'm like, what was this, what was the message in this?
[00:24:16] Charla: Like, sometimes it's, um, well, there's lots of different things I won't go into now, but sometimes I feel just like it's this beautiful message, and I would go so far to say that these types of dreams are supernatural, that they're from God. Quite often, um, I'll have a dream where I really feel that He's telling me that He loves me, that I'm important, probably because I'm having a bad day and I'm feeling unloved or unimportant or whatever.
And maybe he's just, you know, like, a parent saying to me, Hey, I love you, so that's, that's all you need. Just go back to sleep or whatever. So when I have a dream like that, that makes me feel loved, fulfilled or, or beautiful or, or you know, that I am a, a child of God and I'm like, I always, when I have those moments, I'm like, he doesn't just think these for me.
He thinks these for everybody. I'm no different than Marijanel, or the person down the street that I have never even met. He loves us all. So I know that this is not just meant for me, it's meant for more than me. So I will often put that into my work. And I have quite a few of those paintings.
Some that I've kept for myself, I've never even shown because they're, they're a little bit more from, well, they're here in my house, so I share them, but I wanna keep them. And others I've put into shows, and there was one that I just found. It was such an incredible experience for me because when I put this piece in the show, the very, like, I painted it and I, I put it in a show like that week, and everybody who who came to the show saw that piece and, and commented on it, loved it. And it was, they, they, they felt a profound experience by looking at it, and they were, everyone was drawn to this piece above all the work, and it sold very quickly.
She let me keep the piece there for the whole show.
[00:26:03] Marijanel: What was that piece called?
[00:26:05] Charla: It was called the Kiss. Um, and I'll tell you just a, a brief idea. The brief idea behind it, um, and it sold, and she allowed me to keep it there for the whole, uh, run of the show and for the whole run of the show, it could have sold 10 more times.
Like, it was just something that, that everybody, well, I feel that this message was so important that people felt what I felt when I painted it. And it came from a dream, and it was so, so quick, like it wasn't an in-depth dream with all kinds of weird connections and weird things happening. I just woke up and I felt like I woke up basically with feeling like I had been kissed, like just, you know, like just a quick kiss on the lips and I woke up and I was like, does someone just kiss me?
Like that's how I felt like it was real. And I was just, I, I woke almost to a start by a kiss and I was like, what was that like? That was, that was something. That was not, it wasn't an actual kiss. My husband, I was napping in the middle of the day. My husband wasn't around, my kids weren't around.
What was that? And I just felt like it was God's just giving me a kiss and saying, I love you, and this is what you do, is someone you love, you give them a kiss. Like give my kids a kiss every day they leave for school. You know, it's just such a, I don't even know what, why we kiss each other, but it was, and I felt it.
It just resonated through my whole spirit because it was a dream. It wasn't just something physical, it was a, it was emotional through my whole spirit. And I was like, I think that was a kiss from God. Like I think I just got a kiss from God, and I wanna paint that kiss, and I want everybody to experience what it is to be woken out of your sleep from, by a kiss from God. And I decided to paint it. And I went into my studio, and I painted it like, you know, it was just one of those paintings. I didn't plan it, I didn't think about it.
[00:27:53] Marijanel: Wow.
[00:27:53] Charla: I just painted it, it's on my website and called The Kiss, and it was unique. It was very different from all the other work that I was doing.
I can't even say I've painted anything similar since. I painted it. I took it to the show. It sold. It profoundly affected a lot of people who walk through that show, and I wish I hadn't sold it, 'cuz I would've loved to have that piece. But I think it was right. I think I had too. I think that was where it was meant to go, and I just, I just look at that piece and that experience, and it was probably good that it sold because it maybe was a bit more meaningful and impactful to other people who hear the story that it was a profound experience out of a dream that I was able to literally put onto canvas, and other people felt it.
The woman who bought it, she, she explained to me that that's what she felt. She felt this beautiful love from something bigger than her. Like, she didn't, I don't know if she was a spiritual person, if she believed in God, but I remember that's what she said she experienced when she saw it. It was just so beautiful and so peaceful.
You're just at peace because you know you're loved. And, um, everyone who saw it had that same experience. I can't explain it. It's, it's one of those experiences that's beyond me.
[00:29:12] Marijanel: Well, you did a really good job explaining it because I completely felt it. And when you said, you know, I kind of wish I didn't sell it. What I thought right away is that I just am gonna hope that you have lots more kisses from God that you can just keep painting and sending them out in the world. 'Cuz the world needs kisses from God. A hundred percent.
[00:29:31] Charla: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. And I look for those, I ask for those kinds of dreams, and I look for those kinds of dreams and moments. Um, and I, I have had more experiences like that, but I, I don't need to explain them all. So, um, but I, that one was so powerful because, the, the show happened and so many people felt it. You know, within 10 days of painting it, I had all of these experiences. So I think that that's one of, like the, the best examples that I have.
But it's, it's interesting. I think painting your dreams also gives you, um, a record of them, 'cuz it's sometimes hard to remember them and to remember the feeling that you have in that dream . But painting that dream helps you kind of work it out. And remember, remember. what you had felt. And I especially like to paint the good ones or the good feelings like the kiss. Something that I, I don't wanna ever forget. And maybe I would've forgotten that dream. Maybe would've felt unimportant if I didn't think dreams were important. So, yeah.
[00:30:31] Marijanel: Well, it's been a pleasure hearing how your actual nighttime dreams have affected your artwork and gone out into the world. And it just makes me come back to right at the beginning of the show and we said how important creativity is.
It's affected greatly by our sleep. And, um, I just wanna encourage everybody to check out the links that we have in the show notes and, uh, we've referenced some other podcasts there and link to Huberman and, um, some other resources. And keep log, keep track of your sleep and how your creativity is affected by it.
Maybe how your dreams influence your art, and if you're able to capture your dreams and somehow let them, um, be incorporated into your artwork. It's just such a really, really neat way to make your work original.
[00:31:25] Charla: Yeah. And, and you gotta remember to work on your, your skills of representing your ideas and thoughts.
[00:31:33] Marijanel: Yeah.
[00:31:33] Charla: Because when you have that dream, you wanna be able to represent it without having to worry about the skills that you need to, to recreate that dream. So on that note, become a member of Bold School . You can take all of our classes and we basically, we have learning paths that can take you from introductory beginner to, um, advanced where you understand color palettes and, uh, brushstrokes and how to create movement and focus in your work.
And then when you have those kinds of dreams and, and those incredible supernatural moments that you need to get on canvas. You go into flow, which is what happened to me that day with The Kiss. I just went into flow and I painted something that just came right out of me because I had the skills already.
It wasn't, it wasn't like something else took my hand and painted for me is I had the skills and...
[00:32:22] Marijanel: You had the skills and just had to deliver the dream.
[00:32:25] Charla: But get the skills 'cuz, uh, God is only gonna work so much through you .
[00:32:30] Marijanel: Yeah, He wants to use the skills. Thank you for joining us today on the Bold Artist Podcast.
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